Wildfire model bugs

I thought I would start looking at Wildfire with the goal up upgrading.

With the first part I tried, a very simple model consisting of 2 extrusions,
I ran into a problem with the second extrusion not showing up on the screen.
It shows up on the model tree but when I run Model Check, it is listed as
"buried". I have neither suppressed nor hidden this feature.

I just updated to build 2003100 with no success. The techs at maintenance
agree it is a bug.

Has anyone else had this problem?

If this is the level of programming used in Wildfire, I think I will stay
with 2001!!

Doug

 

Doug, I hate to answer a question like this because I'm sure that about two
minutes after someone writes such a note out of frustration with a new
interface, they'll be playing around with it and figure out what happened.
It'll just be another 'OOPS' and I'll just be wasting my time. The other
reason I hate answering is that you are upgrading, thus, an experienced
user. The steps I'd advocate taking might sound like I'm speaking to a
newbie, so again, I hestitate. Thirdly, I am also wary of my own prejudices
which contend that the problems in Pro/e are not those of recent origin, but
those which have been with it from the beginning. So, pardon me if I don't
take this particular 'bug' quite as seriously as you do. Mostly, people find
to be bugs what they don't understand. Again, just my prejudice. But, no,
I've not had your particular problem with Wildfire.

As to a debugging procedure, I can't look over your shoulder. So, what else
did you do. For example, did you click on the featue in the model tree? Did
it show the wireframe in red? Does it look as if the feature should have
been extruded to the outside of the part? or is it possible that the feature
is just extruded in the wrong direction and, in fact, 'buried' in the first
feature? I've never used model check, so I don't know what kind of messages
it gives. But, from that message and the changes in the interface and your
unfamiliarity with it, that's the first thing I'd check. As another check,
highlight the featue in the model tree and RMB the drop down menu. Pick
'Edit defintion'. (This is the old 'feature>redefine') You should see some
square handles used for adjust dimensions interactively. Drag the white one
to adjust depth. Also, play with some of the other defintion elements on
that bar: remember, with that little line of icons, you can change the
direction of the extrusion, whether it adds or removes material and even
whether it makes a solid or a surface. A lot can go 'wrong', depending on
what you are trying to do. If you have the definition which should produce a
solid protusion extending out of the base protrusion, you may have a bug.
But I bet you fix it and get a solid protrusion. First rule, whenever you
encounter a new situation and things don't go right ~ don't panic! Give
yourself time to get used to it.

David Janes

 

Thank you for your reply,
No I am not a Newbie although I have only been with ProE, 4 years, I do have
considerable experience with it and have had 20 years experience with other
CAD systems.. However we all must go back to basics at times to resolve
problems.

As to your suggestions,
- The feature that I extruded is to both sides and is definitely outside the
first feature.
- The feature does show up as a wire frame in red if I highlight it in the
model tree but will disappear on a regen.
- I have tried using the edit handles using "edit definition" and it makes
no difference. The length will change but the feature will not show on the
screen.
- No I don't usually panic, I have had too much experience with buggy
programs for that and I will stay with this until I can make it work
- I contacted Rand Tech support and the had the same problem. An SPR was
submitted to PTC development and they agreed it is a bug and are tying to
fix it.

If you are interested, I would be happy to send you a file of the part.

Doug

 

David,
Your dialog about Desktop interests me. How does that really stack up
against real Pro. Other than rendering, which I don't need, and how does it
compare to the student version. Student 2001, not Wildfire, which I haven't
heard there is one as of yet. Surface, pro/program, analysis and evaluate
features, assembly, layout, etc. Just curious.

Thanks in advance,
Doug

 

Just a guess, but check your system colors. It might treat a cut vs.
protrusion differently, therefore it could even be made invisible. Also
look at model tree settings.

Just a couple of thoughts.

A different Doug

 

BTW, here's an update on the problems I was having with strange screen colors,
disappearing dimensions and disappearing parts. Reasoning that a black screen in
sketcher requires some goofy setup to put it into 2d, I changed the config.pro
options 'start_sketcher_in_2d' to NO, meaning no goofy setup, screen colors stay
as they were, no zooming in or out when you change a dimension. Suddenly, all the
other problems went away, as well. Oh, and you can put the sketch in 'sketch
view', but it just reorients so that the sketch plane is parallel to the screen,
no messing with screen colors.

DJ

: Just a guess, but check your system colors. It might treat a cut vs.
: protrusion differently, therefore it could even be made invisible. Also
: look at model tree settings.
:
: Just a couple of thoughts.
:
: A different Doug
:
:
:
: : > David,
: > Your comment about the change in the protusion to add rather than remove
: > material prompted me to try another time at my model. Stangely, if I call
: my
: > feature a cut rather than a protrusion, it will show up on the screen. I
: > guess this only proves it definitely is a bug, but as I am finding with
: > Wildfire, that is not surprising.
: > Doug
: >
: >
:
:

 

: > Actually, Doug, the whole model vanishes immediately after I save the
: > file/assembly. I thought about other config.pro settings regarding video
: > display, like save_display or save_model_display or retain_display_memory or
: > shade_moving_comp or spin_with_part_entities, which could be effected by a
: > file save.
:
: I think this is a fault in one of the Wildfire releases but there is a
: workaround. After you save the model, hide then unhide one of the
: features and the model will reappear.

Hide/unhide, hunh, I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to remember that if it ever
happens again. But I did something similar which has worked in the past ~ blank
and unblank a layer. Probably similar internal processes in Pro/e. Goes deeper
into the display code to do a screen reset than a 'repaint'.

DJ

 

I tried the hide/unhide trick with the model I was describing on my original
post.
There are only 2 features in this part. The first one does not hide even
when the model tree indicates it is hidden. The second feature that will not
show at all does not have the hide option on the menu when You use the RMB.

I have had Wildfire now for about 6 months and have been trying to make it
work. With the sort of problem I have been having, I can't trust it to show
what I want. As far as I am concerned, Wildfire is a disaster. Even if you
can get something to work by hid/unhide, we pay too much for this program to
have to debug it for PTC. 2001 does all I want for now and I will not change
until the bugs are fixed.

Doug

 

: I tried the hide/unhide trick with the model I was describing on my original
: post.
: There are only 2 features in this part. The first one does not hide even
: when the model tree indicates it is hidden. The second feature that will not
: show at all does not have the hide option on the menu when You use the RMB.
:
: I have had Wildfire now for about 6 months and have been trying to make it
: work. With the sort of problem I have been having, I can't trust it to show
: what I want. As far as I am concerned, Wildfire is a disaster. Even if you
: can get something to work by hid/unhide, we pay too much for this program to
: have to debug it for PTC. 2001 does all I want for now and I will not change
: until the bugs are fixed.
:
: Doug
:
:
: : > : > : > : > Actually, Doug, the whole model vanishes immediately after I save the
: > : > file/assembly. I thought about other config.pro settings regarding
: video
: > : > display, like save_display or save_model_display or
: retain_display_memory or
: > : > shade_moving_comp or spin_with_part_entities, which could be effected
: by a
: > : > file save.
: > :
: > : I think this is a fault in one of the Wildfire releases but there is a
: > : workaround. After you save the model, hide then unhide one of the
: > : features and the model will reappear.
: >
: > Hide/unhide, hunh, I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to remember that if
: it ever
: > happens again. But I did something similar which has worked in the past ~
: blank
: > and unblank a layer. Probably similar internal processes in Pro/e. Goes
: deeper
: > into the display code to do a screen reset than a 'repaint'.
: >
: > DJ
: >
Doug, PTC builds and releases at least once a week, depending on how fast they fix
stuff. But, in spite of the gobs of money you give them for license, maintenance
and support, they don't tell you about it. They make you ask, then they'll tell
you if there's a build with the fix. Or, you can just ask them to send you the
latest build which accumulates all the fixes to date. It's possible that's all you
need to fix this problem. In spite of what they said about concentrating on
quality for this release, they still stink on quality and service is their own
'proprietary' brand. BUT DON'T LET THEM OFF THE HOOK AND JUST GIVE UP!!!

 

I just checked with PTC to see my call status which is marked "Urgent". the
call status is marked as resolved. I have not heard anything from them.
I called Rand today and they have no resolution.

I definitely will not let them off the hook and eventually I will get a
resolution but it may be a switch to Catia or UG!!

Doug

 

Dave Low, very talented plastics and mold designer in the Chicago area, presented
a 40 minute talk on Alternatives to Drafting, (the process of adding draft to
surfaces for free ejection from injection molds). He had sweeps in there, he had
revolves, he had blends, every technique he'd ever used to avoid touching their
abominable draft function. Never worked right, he got up in the national Pro/USER
conference, 2002 in Atlanta, and said so. Must have embarassed the shit out of
them, cuz it's fixed in Wildfire. I'm not sure if it's bullet proof, but it works
and works very well. It just took a big struggle on a lot of people's parts to get
it done. But it is getting done and in many respects, it is getting better. Not
fast enough, not consistently enough, but with enough people kickin' their butts,
it is happening. Your company needs to get behind you, get hold of the sales rep
and get an application specialist out there and get you some working software
installed. They own you some working software! Period! Ever mention getting your
money back from them? That should be good for a couple laughs.

DJ

: I just checked with PTC to see my call status which is marked "Urgent". the
: call status is marked as resolved. I have not heard anything from them.
: I called Rand today and they have no resolution.
:
: I definitely will not let them off the hook and eventually I will get a
: resolution but it may be a switch to Catia or UG!!
:
: Doug
:
:
: : >
: > : > : I tried the hide/unhide trick with the model I was describing on my
: original
: > : post.
: > : There are only 2 features in this part. The first one does not hide even
: > : when the model tree indicates it is hidden. The second feature that will
: not
: > : show at all does not have the hide option on the menu when You use the
: RMB.
: > :
: > : I have had Wildfire now for about 6 months and have been trying to make
: it
: > : work. With the sort of problem I have been having, I can't trust it to
: show
: > : what I want. As far as I am concerned, Wildfire is a disaster. Even if
: you
: > : can get something to work by hid/unhide, we pay too much for this
: program to
: > : have to debug it for PTC. 2001 does all I want for now and I will not
: change
: > : until the bugs are fixed.
: > :
: > : Doug
: > :
: > :
: > : : > : > : > : > : > : > : > Actually, Doug, the whole model vanishes immediately after I save
: the
: > : > : > file/assembly. I thought about other config.pro settings regarding
: > : video
: > : > : > display, like save_display or save_model_display or
: > : retain_display_memory or
: > : > : > shade_moving_comp or spin_with_part_entities, which could be
: effected
: > : by a
: > : > : > file save.
: > : > :
: > : > : I think this is a fault in one of the Wildfire releases but there is
: a
: > : > : workaround. After you save the model, hide then unhide one of the
: > : > : features and the model will reappear.
: > : >
: > : > Hide/unhide, hunh, I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to remember
: that if
: > : it ever
: > : > happens again. But I did something similar which has worked in the
: past ~
: > : blank
: > : > and unblank a layer. Probably similar internal processes in Pro/e.
: Goes
: > : deeper
: > : > into the display code to do a screen reset than a 'repaint'.
: > : >
: > : > DJ
: > : >
: > Doug, PTC builds and releases at least once a week, depending on how fast
: they fix
: > stuff. But, in spite of the gobs of money you give them for license,
: maintenance
: > and support, they don't tell you about it. They make you ask, then they'll
: tell
: > you if there's a build with the fix. Or, you can just ask them to send you
: the
: > latest build which accumulates all the fixes to date. It's possible that's
: all you
: > need to fix this problem. In spite of what they said about concentrating
: on
: > quality for this release, they still stink on quality and service is their
: own
: > 'proprietary' brand. BUT DON'T LET THEM OFF THE HOOK AND JUST GIVE UP!!!
: >
: >
:
: