Which Graphic Board would you choose?

Discussion in 'Pro/Engineer & Creo Elements/Pro' started by Jon Smallberries, Jan 27, 2004.

  1. I know this has been covered before, so please excuse me.

    Using Pro/e 2001, Mechanica 2001, P4 2.26Ghz, 2g ram,
    and have been having trouble with my ATI Fire GL8800.

    Either I can limit my open Pro/e windows to 4 or
    I can have many open Pro/e windows but randomly
    lock up the OS while spinning in shaded mode.
    These two are results of two different drivers.

    I was told by IT that I can choose among the next
    3 cards:

    Nvidia Quadro FX500

    ATI Fire GL X1 (ATI sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth)

    3DLabs WildCat VP870

    Which would you pick?

    I don't really have time to search for reviews,
    because I have to order before this Wednesday,
    or I am stuck with this board until we all get
    new IBM workstations in July.

    PLEASE HELP.

    Marc
     
    Jon Smallberries, Jan 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jon,

    IMHO, the best bang is going to be the FX500 (~$250)!
    And, if you have 8X AGP on your motherboard, all the better.

    Although, the Fire GL X1 is very good, it's 2X more expensive.. but
    you're not going to get 2X more performance.

    I'd strongly suggest that you wage for upgrading your CPU to at least a
    2.8ghz (~$180-$220 (533/800 FSB)) if you can!?

    If you can swing it, the better way to go is getting the two, a 2.8ghz
    cpu upgrade and the fx500.. or about $450 total and that should be less
    than the (1) fire gl x1?

    Now, that's a winning combination (~50% overall performance increase)
    for you and your company and if your IT people can not recognize that,
    well, you're screwed.

    Here's a reference link for graphic card and cpu prices..
    http://www.pricewatch.com


    Good luck.
     
    Paul Salvador, Jan 27, 2004
    #2
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  3. Jon Smallberries

    David Janes Guest

    : I know this has been covered before, so please excuse me.
    :
    : Using Pro/e 2001, Mechanica 2001, P4 2.26Ghz, 2g ram,
    : and have been having trouble with my ATI Fire GL8800.
    :
    : Either I can limit my open Pro/e windows to 4 or
    : I can have many open Pro/e windows but randomly
    : lock up the OS while spinning in shaded mode.
    : These two are results of two different drivers.
    :
    : I was told by IT that I can choose among the next
    : 3 cards:
    :
    : Nvidia Quadro FX500
    :
    : ATI Fire GL X1 (ATI sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth)
    :
    : 3DLabs WildCat VP870
    :
    I think PTC makes the list you (or rather your IT dept.) should be picking from.
    You can see, for example, their list of supported hardware at the following url:
    http://www.ptc.com/partners/hardware/current/proe.htm

    Granted, your IT dept. might not care or might be too ignorant or cheap or
    shortsighted to consider this, but you ought to make them aware of it anyway and
    suggest that, even if they don't follow it strictly, they'd be shooting themselves
    in the foot to completely ignore it. Especially if they hope to get support from
    PTC. Who knows, one of your IT depts. 'favorites' might be on it or they might not
    know about this list and you could come out a hero for telling them about it. Or
    not. Shot in the dark.
    \
    David Janes
     
    David Janes, Jan 28, 2004
    #3
  4. Thanks a bunch Paul.
    I think I'll go with the Nvidia.

    I wish I could upgrade CPUs now,
    but we are all getting (supposedly in July)
    new dual Xeon IBM Intellistations (maybe 64 bit by then?).

    If I can run Pro/e with the max open windows, and
    Mechanica without checkerboard shading, I will
    be a happy camper.

    Again,

    Thanks for the quick response.
     
    Jon Smallberries, Jan 28, 2004
    #4
  5. Thanks David.

    I've seen this list already.
    Those cards that I listed in my orginal post, are on the PTC approved
    graphics card list, unfortunately PTC lists them as part of a complete
    systems.
    PTC does not certify individual components anymore.

    So I am "screwed" as for as support from PTC until July.
    On the plus side at least I will be able to work in
    shaded mode again and have more than 4 Pro/e windows open.

    Ever seen checkerboard Mechanica stress result models?
    It hurts my eyes to look at them.

    Again thanks.
     
    Jon Smallberries, Jan 28, 2004
    #5
  6. Jon Smallberries

    John Doec Guest

    I use 8800 and never had any problems.
    You might have some bad drivers or maybe a defective card.
    I have the bad taste from Nvidia re: drivers updates as they tend to just
    abandon you after buying a product.
    I would go for X1 as is a newer core than 8800 and also 8 pipelines
    architecture. The 256 MB version would be indicated if you use large
    assemblies. I just bought a Radeon 9700 for $150 (my other workstation)
    which can be easily hardware modded to a X1. I will do it this weekend and
    let you guys know.

    Cheers.
     
    John Doec, Jan 28, 2004
    #6
  7. I would request the Wildcat or Quadro FX500 and not worry about it.
    Regardless of PTC's support, these mfrs have a good history of supporting
    Pro/E compatibility.

    Dave
     
    David Geesaman, Jan 28, 2004
    #7
  8. No prob. Hey, I know you said your IT only gave you those options but
    I'd suggest two others...

    Quadro 980XGL (~$520)
    Quadro FX1100 (~$620)

    As for the 64 bit, if you have not read the article at PTC on 64 bit
    cpu's,... you should read it.
    They confirm what I've read over the years,.. that 64 bit will not make
    Pro/e faster, actually it will be slower in most cases. Where it will
    be faster is when the app accesses more memory.
    That is, currently most 32 bit OS's limit a app to 3 gig's of system
    memory, the newer 64 bit systems and OS's should allow 16 gigs or system
    memory per app? And, yes, there is a helluva lot more access to
    external memory.

    Anyhow, the Xeons should help with their larger cache, and the duellies
    should be sweet!?

    But.. I can not help note the mistake of your IT people here, the
    investment now on a 2.8ghz cpu upgrade should easily pay for it self
    well before July! It's a win-win, period! Or you loose $ by not
    upgrading. Sorry, as a independent designer, it's obvious to me. That
    is, I would take advantage of it, because I know it would pay for
    itself. Or putting it nicely, your company's IT or management is not
    being resourceful as they should be to keep you and them productive.
    Sorry.

    later... 8^)
     
    Paul Salvador, Jan 28, 2004
    #8
  9. Jon Smallberries

    bellsouth Guest

    I have found that IT departments are unable to grasp the difference between
    how engineers use their computers and everyone else. Where I work the
    "workstations" were mid-level gaming boxes with no certified parts in them.
    Fortunately, the worked OK for a few years but eventually were unable to
    keep up with Pro. There are other interesting issues too ... engineers
    using Pro tend to send e-mails with models attached which (surprise!) the
    e-mail servers are set to stop because they are too large ... I do analysis
    using Excel and a spreadsheet can take minutes to run on my 3.0GHz
    workstation but I can't send it to my boss to review because his pc is my
    old gaming one (it would take an hour to run on his) ... our file server is
    the same "server" (a converted workstation) as our Intralink server .... I
    could go on and on.

    IT should get their act together ... engineers are not spending all day on
    their computers writing letters to mother.
     
    bellsouth, Jan 29, 2004
    #9
  10. I ordered the Nvidia Quadro FX 500.

    Thanks for everyone's input.

    I CAN'T get IT to even consider early CPU upgrades,
    they still write with chisel and stone here.

    BTW. I exchanged my Fire GL8800 twice before this
    current one, and have tried almost every driver out
    there. IT actually re-installed the OS to make sure
    once, and I still have the orginal problems.

    Will post when I get my new FX500!
     
    Jon Smallberries, Jan 30, 2004
    #10
  11. If you really are losing time b/c of lack of RAM or CPU (as I once was:),
    and IT refuses to believe it is insufficient (heck, they did double the
    minimum system requirements from 128MB to 256MB), try this:

    Take your boss or boss's boss - someone with enough clout to butt heads with
    IT if necessary.
    Open an assembly or draft of a product this person knows and can relate to
    (high priority project helps a lot).
    Make a change and regenerate - a change that you would make on a daily
    basis. Sit back in your chair and watch the screen while they wait. Maybe
    make a casual remark "I get a lot of this", or "you want a coffee?"

    This person will quickly decide they can't have you waiting like that things
    will change. Worked for me - our Engg director spent not 30sec waiting for
    a big assembly to regenerate and he had ants in his pants.

    They might not understand tech, but they will understand a person sitting
    and waiting.

    Dave
     
    David Geesaman, Jan 30, 2004
    #11
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