Subscription costs

Discussion in 'SolidWorks' started by Andr? Richard, Jul 16, 2004.

  1. Well, it's that time of the year for us.. and my bosses dont seem
    eager to want to pay for the subscription. I've been awaiting SW 2005
    greatly and have been on the beta, and like it very much. But to get
    2005, we'll have to stay on the subscription.

    What i'm asking is.. What would be the major benefits of keeping the
    subscription so that it looks like it's worth it for the bosses to
    fork over the cash? Tech support is my number one.. When i'm in a
    pinch they've always helped me out (in fact i needed help just
    yesterday). But it's hard to put a dollar value on that. Obviously
    upgrading to 2005 is a big thing, but i'm unsure which features to
    show off to the bosses to make it seem like getting 2005 is worth the
    money. Does anyone have any special feature they'd like to point out?
    i'm not gonna make them read a huge "whats new" pdf, most of the stuff
    in there doesn't change productivity all that much..

    Thanks for your input,

    Andre
     
    Andr? Richard, Jul 16, 2004
    #1
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  2. Andr? Richard

    MM Guest

    Andre

    Unfortunately, this is the way of all modern engineering software, not just
    SW.

    If you have to collaborate and share data with the outside world, you almost
    "have" to remain current.

    Regards

    Mark
     
    MM, Jul 16, 2004
    #2
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  3. Andr? Richard

    Jeff Howard Guest

    ......................
    I'd think you're in a better position to answer that than
    anyone else.
     
    Jeff Howard, Jul 16, 2004
    #3
  4. Andr? Richard

    cadmgr2004 Guest

    One powerful argument is to remain compatible with your customers and
    suppliers if you exchange SolidWorks files with them.
     
    cadmgr2004, Jul 16, 2004
    #4
  5. Andr? Richard

    Sporkman Guest

    Andre, I have to question myself about what Subscription Service is
    worth, and from year to year it seems less "worth" to me in my
    business. But my business is not your business, of course. I'm a
    freelancer, and although it's rather likely I'll run into a situation
    where I'll have to accept files in a later version of SolidWorks than I
    have on hand (IF I accept the job), the inconvenience of that may not
    "cost" me as much as Subscription Service would. Frankly, I don't NEED
    technical support from SolidWorks Corporation very much. I get about
    everything I need in that vein free, from participation and the
    participants in this newsgroup. If I absolutely have to go to a new
    version of SolidWorks sometime, I believe (people please correct me if
    I'm wrong) that I can pay a one-time fee of several hundred less than
    the yearly maintenance fee of $1295, even though that doesn't get me
    technical support or service packs. I've learned to hang back on the
    use of new versions of SolidWorks, and sometimes I hang back a very long
    time . . . and for good reason. SolidWorks Corporation has become very
    well known for putting out releases that are buggy as Hell (and with no
    good excuses for it) -- so buggy they're hardly worth using unless one
    really REQUIRES whatever extra functionality is included. I don't find
    that often to be the case, and unless you're someone like Paul Salvador
    you probably wouldn't either.

    This time around I'm fairly likely to skip SolidWorks 2004 almost
    entirely (as I did with SolidWorks 2001, and without and dire
    consequences) and go directly to SolidWorks 2005 . . . WHEN I'M DRIVEN
    TO IT or when the messages on this newsgroup indicate that it's VERY
    worth my while to do it. I suggest you approach the question of
    "upgrading" with at least as much thought as I've given it. Although
    your bosses' motivation is likely to be less logical and more about
    saving money (whether wisely or no) it actually MAY NOT be in the best
    interests of your company to pay for Subscription Service . . . at least
    not on all of your seats. You can always maintain one seat (even while
    not necessarily "upgrading" it) IF it's likely that your office will
    have to accept files in later formats AND keep their parametric
    history. If you don't really need parametric history you don't really
    need the upgrade at all -- just get your files in IGES, STEP, ACIS or
    Parasolid translations. Only you and they can judge whether you really
    need continuous upgrade options and technical support, but I suggest you
    think about it carefully and with an open mind.

    Mark 'Sporky' Stapleton
    Watermark Design, LLC
    www.h2omarkdesign.com
     
    Sporkman, Jul 16, 2004
    #5
  6. How about compatability. If you use vendors or exchnage files with
    others using SolidWorks and they are on the next version and your not
    it's impossible for you to open and use their files. Natively anyway.
     
    Rob Rodriguez, Jul 16, 2004
    #6
  7. Andr? Richard

    Sporkman Guest

    It's quite possible for a company with several seats NOT to need more
    than one seat on the latest-and-(NOT)greatest release. IF parametric
    history is NEEDED, that's one thing, but if all you need to do is USE
    geometry from later versions then you only really need ONE seat that
    will import a file natively and then export to Parasolid (or IGES, or
    STEP or ACIS). I'm suggesting that a very large proportion of those
    companies that maintain all their seats on Subscription Service really
    don't NEED to do so and they may be financially better off by NOT doing
    so. And frankly, a fairly large proportion of companies declining to
    renew their Subscription Service MIGHT just get SolidWorks Corporation
    thinking more about how they can make Subscription Service more valuable
    to their customers. I'm not suggesting a boycott (as I did at one
    time). I'm just suggesting that people do some careful and impartial
    analysis.

    'Sporky'
     
    Sporkman, Jul 16, 2004
    #7
  8. Andr? Richard

    MM Guest

    Spork,

    I kinda agree with you on most points. However, situations do vary allot. We
    just got a whole shitload of files, from a new customer, in SW2004 format.
    In this case (and most others with us) we need the features. We'll also need
    four or five people working on the data at the same time, so we have little
    choice. At times it seems like paying protection to the Mob.

    Regards

    Mark
     
    MM, Jul 16, 2004
    #8
  9. Andr? Richard

    Sporkman Guest

    Y'know, mi Amigo, that's to be expected. Many companies WOULD need to
    keep their seats -- all or maybe just several -- up to date. But I'd
    almost be willing to bet that there might be just as many (if not more)
    companies who WOULDN'T actually NEED that. Actually I suspect that I'm
    more likely to need it (as a freelancer) than most companies would, and
    I've just about decided that I DON'T (need it).

    'Sporky'
     
    Sporkman, Jul 16, 2004
    #9
  10. Andr? Richard

    Sporkman Guest

    Mark (or anyone), d'ya know for sure whether yer can get the one-time
    upgrade on a seat from yer VAR? I think the cost I read (on the
    newsgroup here) was like $700 or something similar. If you let your
    maintenance lapse they tack on a reinstallation fee to reinstate
    Subscription Service, but would they do that for a one-time upgrade? I
    know my VAR remains mum on the subject -- obviously doesn't want to talk
    about it, and I don't blame him if $700 is really the deal.

    'Sporky'
     
    Sporkman, Jul 16, 2004
    #10
  11. Andr? Richard

    MM Guest

    Spork,

    Yea,... It's gotta be tough to swallow if your a one man band. Around here,
    they've chalked it up to the cost of doing business. Still bugs the hell
    outa me though.

    Seem's you and Paul S. are pretty much in the same boat in that regard. You
    may want to ask his opinion. Make sure you're strapped in good and tight for
    the response though.

    Regards

    Mark
     
    MM, Jul 16, 2004
    #11
  12. Andr? Richard

    MM Guest

    Spork,

    Sure would be nice if it's true. You wait till the dust settles, fork over a
    couple of C notes and your done.

    Mastercam used to be like that. You pay a fixed fee, 10%, for an upgrade
    whenever you want. All the patches and fixes are free, and you don't need a
    maintenance contract to get them. They're changing their system to be more
    in line with the "shakedown" policies of everyone else. I'm still not to
    clear on the details. I suspect the got some bean counter/marketing types
    involved. The old way wasn't generating enough revenue I guess. It always
    amazes me how marketing slimeballs can put a spin on a ripoff to make it
    sound like your getting a better deal. It's just a laughably tranparent
    scheme to generate money with zero effort. But, I guess there's alot of
    people that fall for it.


    Regards


    Mark
     
    MM, Jul 16, 2004
    #12
  13. Andr? Richard

    Muggs Guest

    Hey Spork,

    ***snip***
    ***snip***

    After being laid off last October, I am also on my own, and I up graded to
    SW 2004 from 2001Plus, and it cost me the subsription price ($1295.00) PLUS
    a $500.00 "penalty".
    So, I guess it all depends on how long you wait.

    FWIW,
    Muggs
     
    Muggs, Jul 16, 2004
    #13
  14. Hey Mark and Mark,

    I hear you guys on both sides..
    I sympathize with Spork because of past issues and have come close to
    skipping my subscription 2-3 times.
    But, I do have active clients with SW and it was a factor for me keeping
    the subscription active, especially last year (which was a twist because
    SW2004 had a bad case of loft and trim surface issues and luckily my
    contract stated specifically support only for the more stable service
    pack, and that was a good/lucky thing!!).
    Although, I did get some incentives from my var during those times which
    allowed me to pay for X months of time instead of the full annual amount
    (deferment). This worked out well because it also moved my annual date
    out where I tend to be more active in the year.
    There are quite a few independent consultants out there with the same
    issues but I think most are still not pushing the software that much.

    I wish I had stopped two of the times SW really sucked but I had to make
    a decision and like some decisions (I don't own/operated a crystal ball)
    are not good ones.
    I still strongly feel we, the users, should have ALL been reimbursed for
    the earlier problems and some of the later screw ups! It's my opinion
    still that if the users recognize a significant fubar in the product
    that there has to be some payback!
    But hey, imho, dealing with corporate cowards seems to be the future...
    and bending over and taking it is part of the game, well, unless you or
    more really get f#@*^&!? Then, it's are real issue!?

    SW2005 is finally addressing splines and that is an issue (with me)
    which seems to be moving well or it's a good start so far.. also,
    surface issues are looking good. I wish SW2005 was like this 6 years
    ago (when I bought SW98), it's stable (for me) and it has features which
    get me excited and hopeful.

    SW2005 is a significant release so I don't know why anyone would hold
    back but everyone has their own specific reasons.
    For Andre, I'd suggest at least one license if you have a client who is
    active and if things escalate on the project in support for SW2005, at
    least you have ammo or a license and someone (train someone) with some
    experience with SW2005.

    Now, as MM said, beta is different from PR0 and SP0 so, we keep our
    fingers crossed....

    BTW, I've already done a few projects in SW2005 beta, it's that stable
    for me. (yep, it's a risk but I also ride my mtn bike down twisting
    roads at 50+mph for fun.)

    ...
     
    Paul Salvador, Jul 17, 2004
    #14
  15. Andr? Richard

    neil Guest

    'it has features which get me excited and hopeful.'

    goodness..... : )
     
    neil, Jul 17, 2004
    #15
  16. Andr? Richard

    MM Guest

    Paul,

    Woa.... there partner !!! I'm truly shocked at the lack of clever cynicism.
    No offense, but your calm demeanor bespeaks one of two things. Either you're
    on heavy meds, or 2005 really is good. I didn't participate in this beta, so
    I don't have a clue.

    What about speed. Is it slower than 2004 ? We just built all new AMD 64's to
    deal with that pig, all with 2gb of memory.

    Regards

    Mark
     
    MM, Jul 17, 2004
    #16
  17. Hey Mark,

    No, no meds, I've never taken drugs or subscription meds in my life.
    I'm calm? Maybe mellow (my normal self) and less concern about what's
    happening with SW lately.
    I actually said something similar in the beta ng, for me, it's been
    pretty good, and I'm impressed "or" I've been lucky (don't get me wrong,
    there were some issues)??

    Speed, I think some people noted it in the beta performance section but
    unfortunately, the online beta discussion seems to be down right now?
    Hmm, is beta officially over now??
    Honestly, with all respect to beta and since it is not officially
    released, or PR, the few things I have said are all good.
    But, putting the past on the performance weegie board, something's get
    faster, some get slower but when has everything gotten faster in a new
    release?? 8^/

    BTW, why not add the 3 gigs plus the 3GB switch for SW to access
    2.6gigs?

    Also, sorry again for not being able to meet with you when I was down in
    Cypress/Huntington Beach.

    ...
     
    Paul Salvador, Jul 17, 2004
    #17
  18. Hey Dale,

    I've been doing much more road riding (26" 100psi slicks on my old
    Fisher HK2) these past years (the roads are good and the vistas are
    great) than single track (which I use to do a lot of in and around the
    Bay Area). The people riding single track around here are riding $3K
    plus bikes, 5" plus travel frames, disc brakes (the only way, imho) and
    crash gear.
    As you can imagine, here you can turn into a tight blind corner with
    pumice, bury your wheels at very high rates and someone or something
    could be in the way!? It can get intense if your in a zone (that is,
    the speed twilight zone where you start to loose focus) . So, I don't
    blame you for going at a rate which you're comfortable, I've been doing
    the same lately.

    Where do you ride? Have you been out here to ride?

    ...
     
    Paul Salvador, Jul 19, 2004
    #18
  19. Mastercam used to be like that. You pay a fixed fee, 10%, for an upgrade
    This was the best way to do it in my mind. Autocad LT still works
    this way.

    My big complaint with SW maint is that I would happily pay for the
    "upgrade" portion of the maintenence which is a good value, but as an
    established user, I get torqued when I have to pay the "support"
    component (near worthless for me).

    Maybe I have these two uses of the maint money artificially seperated,
    but I don't have much use for the VAR network (not trying to discount
    them, but for me there's simply no compelling need).

    Ideal Case: Pay for upgrades on maint or "buy" upgrades as needed -
    Buy additional "live support" at a higher price if and when one needs
    it.

    Regards,

    SMA
     
    Sean-Michael Adams, Jul 19, 2004
    #19
  20. Paul Salvador, Jul 19, 2004
    #20
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