Pro Manu, Mill Volumes

Hello,
I am machining a pocket, first I ruff it with a .25 Ball end mill
and then with a 4mm all endmil, each time I pick mill volume and pick
the same volume, when the tool path is created the 4mm ruffs away alot
of the same material that the 250 did, is there any way (parameter) to
set it to know what material it hase ruffed away in a previous NC
sequence?

 

: Hello,
: I am machining a pocket, first I ruff it with a .25 Ball end mill
: and then with a 4mm all endmil, each time I pick mill volume and pick
: the same volume, when the tool path is created the 4mm ruffs away alot
: of the same material that the 250 did, is there any way (parameter) to
: set it to know what material it hase ruffed away in a previous NC
: sequence?

Shaun, one of the unfortunate things about Pro/NC is that it doesn't give you any
help in picking roughing and finishing routines. Mill volume is great, really
simple if you are going to rough and finish with the same tool. But, if you plan
to do it in steps and stages, Mill volume is good only as a roughing routine. You
might gain some advantage by picking as your 'rough option', prof_only for a
second pass with a smaller cutter. Or you could define a shorter mill volume, one
which starts at about the height of the roughed stock. But, you are probably more
likely at the point where you can start Mill Surface routines. All of this depends
on the geometry, but mill surface is most appropriate for curvy type surfaces.
Others would be profile and pocket or profile and trajectory. Drafts are possible
if you use draft cutters.

Anyway, this isn't SurfCAM where you can go Z-rough and Z-finish and it figures it
out for you. You have to do some experimenting. Hopefully you can do it in foam or
wood before subjecting those cutters to tool steel.

David Janes

 

David,

I think you should be on PTC's payroll. Seriously.

David

 

: David,
:
: I think you should be on PTC's payroll. Seriously.
:
: David
:
Thanks, you're right: somebody on PTC's payroll ought to be here, helping out,
picking up useful ideas, flogging their educational materials. Or maybe someone
from Torgon or one of the PRO/USER technical committees, someone who could get
some reciprocity going. I've applied both places; I promise you, I don't appear on
their radar. Probably because I haven't built a business, charging obscene amounts
of money to do what I'm doing here for 'free'. ('Free' in quotes because my
helping obligates the 'helpees' to participate in a helping/learning community and
to pass it on.) I'm okay below their radar ~ if they can't see me, they can't fire
me.

DJ

 

Isn't there a tool to remove cutted material and then only 'sees' the
one that is left? Of course, the sequences would go "volume mill#remove
material#volume mill", but with copy and such, it shouldn't be too much
work.

But I must admit, I haven't used this in a very long time ... so it may
not work after all.

Tom

 

You can create a material removal feature which will cut the volume,
leaving behind the amount of stock as defined in the PROF_STOCK_ALLOW
parameter. This however is a uniform cut, and does not show the
scallops left behind but the cutter shape. No CAM application in fact
has a heuristic material removal feature. It can be done if you have
full-blown Vericut (which I doubt). It is possible to export the cut
model (gouges and scallops and all) as an IGES file from Vericut,
bring it into ProE and as a part and use it to cut out the reference
model, resulting in an accurate workpiece vis-a-vis what the tool did
to the part.

WF2 has added some new re-roughing capabilities, but I've yet to
explore them even though we are running WF2 in production. 99 percent
of our machining is of the prismatic variety, and we don't commonly
mill out contoured surface or use ball end mills except to generate
simple rounds in cavities.

As for their being PTC employees monitoring the group - I don't know.
It doesn't seem worthwhile, in my view. I think you get a lot more
good responses by subscribing the newsgroups at ptcuser.org and using
a newsreader like Outlook Express. This 3 to 6 hour posting time on
Google is just ludicrous. I am sending this at 11:18am EST and this
probably won't appear until this evening. People have work to do and
need answers in 5 minutes, not 5 hours.

I never see you on the 6 groups to which I'm subscribed, David. What
gives? I know you provide a lot of useful advice here....as a matter
of fact, I think of it more as comp.cad.davidjanes. But I can't say I
look at it every day like ptcuser because it's kind of like a soap
opera - you can miss it for a week and still get caught up in one
episode.

Regards

 

: > > David Janes schrieb:
: >
: > > : Hello,
: > > : I am machining a pocket, first I ruff it with a .25 Ball end mill
: > > : and then with a 4mm all endmil, each time I pick mill volume and pick
: > > : the same volume, when the tool path is created the 4mm ruffs away alot
: > > : of the same material that the 250 did, is there any way (parameter) to
: > > : set it to know what material it hase ruffed away in a previous NC
: > > : sequence?
: > >
: > > Shaun, one of the unfortunate things about Pro/NC is that it doesn't give
you any
: > > help in picking roughing and finishing routines. Mill volume is great,
really
: > > simple if you are going to rough and finish with the same tool. But, if you
plan
: > > to do it in steps and stages, Mill volume is good only as a roughing
routine. You
: > > might gain some advantage by picking as your 'rough option', prof_only for a
: > > second pass with a smaller cutter. Or you could define a shorter mill
volume, one
: > > which starts at about the height of the roughed stock. But, you are probably
more
: > > likely at the point where you can start Mill Surface routines. All of this
depends
: > > on the geometry, but mill surface is most appropriate for curvy type
surfaces.
: > > Others would be profile and pocket or profile and trajectory. Drafts are
possible
: > > if you use draft cutters.
: >
: > Isn't there a tool to remove cutted material and then only 'sees' the
: > one that is left? Of course, the sequences would go "volume mill#remove
: > material#volume mill", but with copy and such, it shouldn't be too much
: > work.
: >
: > But I must admit, I haven't used this in a very long time ... so it may
: > not work after all.
: >
: > Tom
:
:
: You can create a material removal feature which will cut the volume,
: leaving behind the amount of stock as defined in the PROF_STOCK_ALLOW
: parameter. This however is a uniform cut, and does not show the
: scallops left behind but the cutter shape.

This material removal featue is also good only for seeing the workpiece take shape
as each machining feature removes material. It does not participate in guiding the
next roughing or finishing milling cycle. This is the point I made in my first
reply post: there is nothing in Pro/NC like rough, intermediate rough and finish.
With SurfCAM at least you can do what they call 'Rest Mill' which analyzes where
stock remains and just machines there. Pro/NC has no idea, no concept, not the
slightest concern at all for where stock been removed or where stock remains.

: No CAM application in fact
: has a heuristic material removal feature. It can be done if you have
: full-blown Vericut (which I doubt). It is possible to export the cut
: model (gouges and scallops and all) as an IGES file from Vericut,
: bring it into ProE and as a part and use it to cut out the reference
: model, resulting in an accurate workpiece vis-a-vis what the tool did
: to the part.
:
My point, exactly. You are constantly having to fake out really dumb machining
software. And that's all that exporting an iges from Vericut amounts to. Why
doesn't Pro/NC know what's been cut and what remains and let you program *that*
instead of letting you waste time cutting air!?!

: WF2 has added some new re-roughing capabilities, but I've yet to
: explore them even though we are running WF2 in production. 99 percent
: of our machining is of the prismatic variety, and we don't commonly
: mill out contoured surface or use ball end mills except to generate
: simple rounds in cavities.
:
: As for their being PTC employees monitoring the group - I don't know.
: It doesn't seem worthwhile, in my view. I think you get a lot more
: good responses by subscribing the newsgroups at ptcuser.org and using
: a newsreader like Outlook Express. This 3 to 6 hour posting time on
: Google is just ludicrous. I am sending this at 11:18am EST and this
: probably won't appear until this evening. People have work to do and
: need answers in 5 minutes, not 5 hours.
:
Agreed, you need a forum with quicker response than Google. But it was only evern
meant to be an archive, not even especially for people to participate through. But
it's grown in mission and scope. Some of this seems to be growing pains.

: I never see you on the 6 groups to which I'm subscribed, David. What
: gives?
I think I've been to most of them. I used to subscribe to the email exploder of
PRO/USER. But I had tghe same complaint you have about Google: I got the emailed
conversations on a daily basis, but by the time I got them, it was a complete
discussion. I got the original post plus half a dozen or more responses. Question
settled, problem solved. It seemed like the Exploder was picking up conversations
taking place somewhere else. Made it extremely difficult to participate. And there
were a lot of silly pissing contests, unprofessional, trivial crap. So I dropped
them. They're probably all different now. Maybe I should try them again. They're
on a list I'm compiling of other Pro/e resources that I want to publish here for
people's use.

Most of the others that I've participated in at one time or another have gotten
too cute in the last few years. Now you have to start an account and sign up for
stuff. One of them you've got to pay a fee to participate in which is meant to
keep people away ~ and it's working. Then they want user profiles, track your
useage and rate you. And all of this is being done by some persons or groups
unknown. Who is Proecentral, for example? These are moderated groups and you have
no idea who or what's behind them, they are not up front about who they are (not
singling out Proecentral, it just comes to mind) or how they operate or who's in
charge. It just feels creepy, like you got some people hiding in there.

Then I tried participating in a help column on one of the Pro/e ezines, Pro/e
Digital Digest or one of those creatures. I got a post-in-reply sent back by the
editor three times to improve my 'signature'. Okay, I had to include my city, oh,
yeah, and then my job title & company. They wouldn't accept Pro/e Vagrant or Chief
Architect on the Manhattan Project so I fudged something like Unemployed designer
in San Diego. But it was just all too painful, awkward and a bit humiliating. So
that's just one more place I have been back to as a contributor.

I know you provide a lot of useful advice here....as a matter
: of fact, I think of it more as comp.cad.davidjanes.

That's very funny, Pete. I want to put that on my Resume. Can I quote you: "Pete
says they should call it...." But the point of this (comp.cad.pro-engineer) is
that there's no admission requirements, no profiles, no fees, no by-laws, no
behind-the-scenes manipulators. This is pure WYSIWIG. If you step up, try to
contribute (membership by participation), you're in. Period. I don't think that
any of those other six you mentioned have quite that breadth of participation or
depth of vision. They're much more exclusionary than I'm comfortable with.

: But I can't say I
: look at it every day like ptcuser because it's kind of like a soap
: opera - you can miss it for a week and still get caught up in one
: episode.
:
That's only telling you that we're not very busy. But that could change over night
with the presence of someone on PTC's payroll coming here periodically. Man, that
would be one sharp (and brave) ginza. I'd personally buy such a sturdy soul a
kevlar vest, cuz you know s/he'd have to be bulletproofed.

David Janes

 

Hi Guys,

Regarding the following:

<<My point, exactly. You are constantly having to fake out really dumb
machining
software. And that's all that exporting an iges from Vericut amounts to. Why
doesn't Pro/NC know what's been cut and what remains and let you program
*that*
instead of letting you waste time cutting air!?!>>

Missler's TopCam uses a (dynamically updated) stock model in conjunction
with the part model to calculate toolpath...works quite well to keep the air
cutting to a minimum. FWIW....

Cheers.............Brian

 

"> : look at it every day like ptcuser because it's kind of like a
soap

I see what you're saying about ptcuser exploders, but you have to
realize that there is more than one way to use them. Just don't
subscribe to the 'daily digest' or any email notifications at all.
Then add ptcuser.org to the newsreader account of Outlook or Outlook
Express, and synchronize. Check off the groups to which you belong,
and 'viola'. Replies and posts are instantaneous. The time lag is a
matter of a minute or two, not "3 to 6" hours...

Pete

 

: "> : look at it every day like ptcuser because it's kind of like a
: soap
: > : opera - you can miss it for a week and still get caught up in one
: > : episode.
: > :
: > That's only telling you that we're not very busy. But that could change over
night
: > with the presence of someone on PTC's payroll coming here periodically. Man,
that
: > would be one sharp (and brave) ginza. I'd personally buy such a sturdy soul a
: > kevlar vest, cuz you know s/he'd have to be bulletproofed.
: >
: > David Janes
:
: I see what you're saying about ptcuser exploders, but you have to
: realize that there is more than one way to use them. Just don't
: subscribe to the 'daily digest' or any email notifications at all.

I learn something new every day. I thought it was just a broadcast service like
listserv which was why it came through email.

: Then add ptcuser.org to the newsreader account of Outlook or Outlook
: Express, and synchronize.

So, when you're setting this up in OE, you use ptcuser.org for the nntp server?

: Check off the groups to which you belong,

I guess you go to ptcuser.org and get it set up first then in OE probably click on
the 'newserver' name and do the subscribing thing. Check the syncronizing status
boxes and hit Synchronize. Cool, I'll have to check this out. This sounds like a
much more useful and useable way to do it. You're a pro, Pete. Thanks. Hey, let's
all go over there and say Hi. (Or maybe I'm the only one that isn't there
already.)

David Janes

 

It's news://news.ptcuser.org. Free registration at members.ptcuser.org
is required to post but not, IIRC, to view. You can also access archives
at that site.

The PTC/User lists offer a good breadth of folks, from small and large
companies and even PTC. Answers tend to be very quick. There's even a
"network" list where I see four San Diego jobs posted in the last month...

The etiquette may take some getting used to, though: you're encouraged
to reply just to the original poster, who then posts a summary once the
issue is resolved. This keeps the overall traffic--and the arguing--down
to a manageable level.

- Wallace

 

I read somewhere... start a 2nd file and create a workpiece of the rough
state of the part and create a nc file for the finish tool and join the
two files (rough file to the finish file) with a text editor

 

: David Janes wrote:
: > So, when you're setting this up in OE, you use ptcuser.org for the nntp
server?
:
: It's news://news.ptcuser.org. Free registration at members.ptcuser.org
: is required to post but not, IIRC, to view. You can also access archives
: at that site.
:
Worked better than expected. Just clicked on the link you provided, OE added that
server to the list and presented me a pile of 'groups' which I suspect are all the
lists that Lyris sponsors. It's impossible to tell wht they all are as there are
no descriptions. But I found the ones for PTC/USER with no trouble.

: The PTC/User lists offer a good breadth of folks, from small and large
: companies and even PTC. Answers tend to be very quick. There's even a
: "network" list where I see four San Diego jobs posted in the last month...
:
The speed is remarked frequently. In fact, it's so fast, it hardly leaves a trace.
Your post, Wallace, back on 7/15 has only you in the 'thread': an original post
and a follow up saying there were lots of replies, none of which appear for your
fellow users' edification. Where did they all go? Is this what you are calling the
'etiquette' or is this an 'abberation' due to most people not registering or
becoming 'members' but replying directly to people, thus making it obligatory that
the original poster provide a summary. In other cases I do see multiple posts on
the same topic which do almost seem like a conversation. One of the confusing
things about this is that it's difficult to tell which questions have been
answered. An awful lot of them seem not to have gotten any answers at all. Does
that mean they weren't answered or just that the answers didn't go to the list?
Seems like it would be hard, doing it this way, to build much of a sense of
community.

I'll lurk a while, see what it's like, maybe join later. Thanks much for the
invitation and for opening the door. I'm sure it was extended to all of us.

David Janes

 

Descriptions can be found here (membership may be needed):

http://members.ptcuser.org/Resource.phx/lyris/exploders.htx

Lyris is the list-server software they use, BTW.

Yes, the idea is that replies go just to the poster of the original
message. Then the poster summarizes these replies back to the list.

Some hot topics do get many replies back to the list.

Probably the poster did receive replies but didn't summarize back to the
list. That's the downside. It wastes some time of people who answer
questions, since they may be answering something that's already been
answered, for the sake of keeping traffic down.

True, it's pretty business-like but a good resource.

- Wallace