Pay rates in the solids modeling business?

Discussion in 'SolidWorks' started by phil scott, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. phil scott

    phil scott Guest

    ..
    I am interested in the following:

    - Salary ranges for professional engineer types who also do solids
    modeling.

    - Salary ranges for skilled draftsmen who do solids modeling but have
    few engineering or advanced design skills.


    In current US dollar terms, and any notes relevant to a drop i real
    wages in these ranges.



    for instance, I was getting $50 an hour consulting (industrial
    facilities) in 1980. today if I can get an offer, its $35 to $40
    max.... adjusted for the cost of living thats about $12 an hour in
    1980 dollars.. ( I freelance though at $50 to $75..even in the trades,
    those are the low range rates freelance, plumbing runs $100/hr near
    the top freelance, same with electrical work.)




    Phil Scott
     
    phil scott, Jun 8, 2007
    #1
  2. Hello,

    Solid modeling is not a big deal.
    It is not the knowledge of particular software what makes the good
    engineer.

    Stefan
     
    Stefan Loukov, Jun 8, 2007
    #2
  3. phil scott

    phil scott Guest

    I understand that fully, Ive been a consulting engineer since 1986 and
    a design build contractor for 15 years prior to that...I am 66 now and
    doing some custom equipment design and fabrication.

    I am interested in the current pay scales is all... what is the market
    paying for these skill sets. ..and what the trend line is.

    Solid modeling from a person who is an accomplished engineer, and
    solid modeling from a drafts person only.


    Phil Scott
     
    phil scott, Jun 8, 2007
    #3
  4. phil scott

    Anna Wood Guest

    Anna Wood, Jun 8, 2007
    #4
  5. phil scott

    Anna Wood Guest

    Anna Wood, Jun 8, 2007
    #5
  6. phil scott

    phil scott Guest

    thanks Anna,
    Ive looked at those for my situation as an engineer and from what I
    can tell the survey questions and criteria must have been way off...I
    did not see that in the industry.
     
    phil scott, Jun 8, 2007
    #6
  7. phil scott

    Anna Wood Guest

    I suspect what you are seeing is a consequence of the current business
    models which can get high quality engineering and IT work from lower
    wage countries. If your work can be off-shored you will see downward
    pressure.

    It is tough for a plumber, electrician or A/C repairman to fix your
    stuff when they are on the other side of the world. There is a severe
    shortage of skilled tradesman in this country and it shows in their
    salaries.

    We have a design engineer at work who just went from salaried to a
    part-time, hourly schedule. He got his contractors license and is
    working to build his business doing home improvement and repair. He
    is in his early 30's and does not have a degree as an engineer. Even
    though he is one of our better engineers it will be tough for him
    going forward since the price of entry in our field is a degree in
    most all cases.

    We are giving him a month or two max before he is devoting all his
    time to his business and quits his engineering job. I am very sure in
    no time he will be making oddles of money. It is about impossible not
    to in the trades if you are talented and do what you say you are going
    to do. This is in the Phoenix market, and even with a down turn in
    real estate there is still tons of work available for the talented
    ones.

    FWIW,

    Anna Wood
     
    Anna Wood, Jun 9, 2007
    #7
  8. phil scott

    phil scott Guest

    thanks Anna,

    Ive gone back to the trades as well, about half trades, and half
    consulting the trades pay the best with a tiny fraction of the
    heartburn


    it takes longer than a month or two to ramp up..

    generally 6 months to start and decide to quit the effort...
    persistence for another 5 months provides some light at the end of the
    tunnel, 18 month some encouragement, and two years action is
    happening.

    You could do your company and him a favor by arranging for part time
    work the first 6 months or a year.


    Phil Scott
     
    phil scott, Jun 9, 2007
    #8
  9. phil scott

    Anna Wood Guest

    He already has more work then time at the moment. He has been working
    at building the business for about a year now. He is at the point
    were he needed to make the break and decide if the contracting
    business was going to be his full time endevour.

    Luckily for him and for those of us that will pick up his workload, my
    company is being flexible as he transitions out of the company.

    Having good, hands on, skilled trades experience is a big plus. You
    have a lot of options when you can work with your hands besides just
    your head. From my perspective, those folks that are more then book
    and computer smart are very valuable.

    Sounds like you are in a good position with having the hands on trades
    experience. It gives you many more options then most.

    Regards,

    Anna Wood
     
    Anna Wood, Jun 9, 2007
    #9
  10. phil scott

    Cliff Guest

    Jb left.
     
    Cliff, Jun 9, 2007
    #10
  11. phil scott

    Sam Guest

    Here is a fairly new site for salary comparisons, not sure how much
    information is on the site yet but if we all go and fill out the
    survey.....


    www.payscale.com
     
    Sam, Jun 9, 2007
    #11
  12. You've just hit upon the primary open borders issue (that never gets
    mentioned in the media).
    As with landscaping, roofing, etc the dollar rate with the other trades is
    being forced downward.
    The media wants you to believe that these vast numbers of illegals are
    picking vegetables.
    In general, the standard of living is dropping in the USA, and the effects
    will accelerate over time.
    Heard stats the other day that for the first time ever, the average 30 year
    old worker now makes less real income than
    their father (per the Bureau of Labor, I think).
    Bill
     
    bill allemann, Jun 9, 2007
    #12
  13. phil scott

    Anna Wood Guest

    Bill,

    Being that I live in Phoenix I am keenly aware of the issues, both pro
    and con, with immigration. I see it everyday.

    I agree with you that the standard of living is on the downslide for
    us in the States. It has been heading down for a while now.

    Heck, I do not make the same amount of money that I made in 1994 when
    I was incased in the warm cozy womb as a salaried employee with GM.
    This is without adjusting for inflation. I do not loss any sleep over
    it and am extremely thankful to have escaped the auto industry before
    their the major bloodletting of the past few years.

    FWIW,

    Anna Wood
     
    Anna Wood, Jun 9, 2007
    #13
  14. phil scott

    phil scott Guest

    these days with most of the engineering and drafting being offshorable
    it makes good sense to add a trade or two to the skill set. a few
    women in this area are making serious money with faux finishes..
    (walls)... real nice work.


    the rates on trades are being driven down by the illegal immigration,
    5 years ago these were mostly driving bycicles here in Marin County
    (north of SF 5 miles)..

    now most have a fairly decent pick up, many have new trucks, one Ive
    met has a new escalade, only a very few still ride bicycles.

    as the nations economy goes south with 50 million baby boomers
    retiring over the next 4 years, and as more manufacturing moves
    offshore, desperation will set in, and much of the trades work will
    see rates dropping further as well... to meet third world levels...but
    the overhead wont decline. standards will.



    Not worrying about it is the smartest move..but staging to dodge the
    bullets involved will be crucial. imo


    It is my view that govt is encouraging banks to make home loans in
    order that most will have one and can be taxed to oblivion with
    property tax .... the income tax isn't going to cut it as middle class
    incomes drop.


    .. with hyper inflation for instance: a dishwasher might get 30
    dollars an hour.... half of that would then be taxed, leaving 15,
    after adjusting for hyper-inflation that wouldnt be liveable...in that
    case the tax becomes uncollectable... the USA is a lot deeper into
    that range than most citizens realize.



    In SF the city officials brainstormed the situation, insufficent tax
    to pay the bogus freight in city govt... they went after bag ladies.,


    peeing on the street and not paying....brilliant these people. Not
    even the faintest clue about the realities of life.


    In nations where they managed to collect regardless, like Romania, the
    people starved, the orphanages filled up with their children who were
    housed like animals, until finally well past all limits the ruthless
    scum in charge got hung from his balcony... thats a bit late though to
    provide suitable recovery..


    Govt bloat and failure of the middle class is a trend line seen in
    virtually all collapsing economies (concealed govt bloat, and in the
    case of the USA, retirements for the typical cop at 100 to 130k a
    year...


    (thats recent, since 2000 aprox) this is not even remotely
    sustainable. as the taxpayers are retiring typically 10 years later,
    at 1/4 to 1/10 as much as the civil servants)....

    costing the city of Novato calif 47% of its fire and safety budget.
    So much for 'the policemen pay for their retirements from their
    pay'... its all smoke.


    In the end except for a highly stressed few, the most viable situation
    will be as an independent, in a niche with many smaller clients..a
    broad base...and operating from thier offices and overhead, not yer
    own....


    with a virtual zero overhead, a person can work just a day a week or
    so, and remain viable... if business slows the overhead doesnt eat him
    alive.


    In LA back in the 80's I had a crew of 26 men... when a job was in
    progress I made good money, one slow week though could cost me 10 or
    20k... 40k in a single month... that adds up to real money fast...
    currently If I dont feel like working, I can take off to learn
    Inventor for example, and burn off $1,000 a month with no need to work
    at all.


    I think this sea change is upon us, the rest of the supporting bubble
    of hot air, about to collapse as foreign investment fades, (it buys
    our real estate and factories outright now).... killing the goose that
    laid the plastic egg.




    Phil Scott
     
    phil scott, Jun 10, 2007
    #14
  15. phil scott

    FlowerPot Guest

    This varies widely depending on a lot of stuff, but most of what I see
    is $75-125/hr. This is not salary so much as rates charged by firms or
    individuals doing the work.

    "Skilled draftsman" is a pretty wide open qualification. Solid modeling
    by itself won't get you much, but combined with good design skills you
    can get $25-75.
     
    FlowerPot, Jun 10, 2007
    #15
  16. phil scott

    phil scott Guest

    Thanks, thats the answer i was looking for, of course it varies some
    regionally... a straight ME these days can get between 35 and 45 an
    hour...an average type... the good ones aren't recognised (talent is
    invisible to the untalented).


    Adding solids modeling to even a mid range ME bag of tricks, if the
    solids are hot looking would indeed run the tab or the employability
    up..

    probably to the 45 to 50/hr range.. (equivalent to 15 or 20 dollars in
    the mid 80's...I was charging out at $40 for HVAC and refrig trades in
    that time frame).

    for a hot number at the high end, a wage of $75 is understandable for
    an engineer but only at the very top.

    (in the trades though its common, and I get $75/hr to troubleshoot
    problem projects...and to run pipe etc free lance... the range for
    that is $75 to $95 or so in the SF bay area, cut that by way more than
    half in much of the deep south east.. raise it some in NYC. )

    it is amazing though some of the messes you see in these low salary
    level markets, not nearly as bad in the higher end markets, but those
    can be messy also.

    I notice also that as you get outside of the larger cities, by just 20
    miles or so, the cost of living and the chargeout rates can drop
    dramaticallly...not aways, if anything stays high its the trades
    rates.


    Phil Scott
     
    phil scott, Jun 10, 2007
    #16
  17. phil scott

    Bo Guest

    I seem to recall reading an article that noted experienced but new
    product desginer/engineers at Apple Computer start at $200k/yr. Doubt
    they work 40 hour weeks, though.

    Bo
     
    Bo, Jun 10, 2007
    #17
  18. phil scott

    phil scott Guest

    thats interesting, the software business primarily... a large the
    packaging though, that part is probably not done by an engineer, but a
    package designer.


    Phil Scott
     
    phil scott, Jun 11, 2007
    #18
  19. phil scott

    Bo Guest

    Apple is primarily a hardware company, but they probably spend more
    development dollars on the software needed to drive it, indeed.

    And the designers I was talking about are the ones working under or
    with Jonathan Ives in the mechanical, electro-mechanical product
    design arena.

    Bo
     
    Bo, Jun 11, 2007
    #19
  20. phil scott

    Bo Guest

    Indeed a quick note on software engineers:

    My streaming notes on the Apple Developer's Conference in S.F. notes
    that there are 1200 software engineers on site at the conference to
    help 5000 attendees, and there are almost 1 million registered
    software developers on the ADC (Apple Developer Connection) site,
    including SolidWorks, no doubt.

    Bo
     
    Bo, Jun 11, 2007
    #20
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