OT; Is scientific process flawed?

Had a rather heated discussion yesterday with a colleague about
evolution vs. creation. The basis of his argument is that scientific
process is flawed, and the knowledge gained from using scientific
process is incorrect. He is offended by people referring to science
as 'fact'.

I argued that science doesn't presume to be factual, that hypothesis
are presented to the community, they are reviewed and tested, and are
not accepted until they can be proved. If the proofs are found to be
incorrect later, then they are rejected.

He claims to love science, but I think he doesn't understand what it
is.

I also argued that creation is based on tradition and is not conducive
to expanding knowledge, ideas are not allowed to be challenged, as
this is considered blasphemy. He says that any expansion of knowledge
on creation is through divine inspiration, and that this is
encouraged.

I am not arguing that creation is wrong, I think that it was the best
way of describing the world when it was written, however humans have a
larger knowledge base now and our ideas are more sophisticated. In
the modern age it seems appropriate to describe our world in terms of
evolution. In the future I'm sure that this description will change
and improve.

Comments? I'm trying to understand my colleague, and I don't think he
is ignorant, but how can I get through his fervour?

Dom.

 

If the knowledge gained from the scientific method was incorrect then
we would be living in a nuke-free world.

God loves you both, but he still thinks your friend is a knob.

 

Well, he seems to love some a whole lot more than others, dats f'sure.

And apparently he thinks I'm a knob, as well.

Sed friend should be interested in my mathematical/statistical proof that
God exists (and therefore, that Creation is true):

My life could not be this miserable by chance alone.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
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The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

AND,
Make sure whomever you do vote for believes in
ABSOLUTE separation of Church & State--ferchrissakes

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

 

<snip>
=======
Never [try to] teach a pig how to sing. It wastes your time and
it annoys the pig.

 

Both ideas are prolly correct.
Eveolution happened, its happeneing before our eyes, but there came a time
when a man was "mutated". A man.
The the woman thing, sounds like the story in the bible is explaining the
use of cloning dna from a rib bone.
The apple is a figure of speach, I mean do apples even grow in Iraq?

And the snake was also a figure of speach. It's all thru history the snake
is the bad guy. people friggen hate snakes, especially in the middle east.

I have one problem with evolution:
Dinosour bones. How in the hell can dinosaur bones from 2 million years ago
be laying on the surface of the ground in the american midwest? Throw
something down, and a week later its buried under and inch of sand.

 

As with any religious/philosophical/science discussion, I find it interesting
how humans attempt to quantify things in human terms. The concept of God by
it's very nature is beyond such limitations.

 

Excellent point.
And, we are also witnessing de-evolution.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

AND,
Make sure whomever you do vote for believes in
ABSOLUTE separation of Church & State--ferchrissakes

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

 

One way to determine the futility/utility of a religious argerment is to ask
the religioused:
What would it take to prove to you that xyz (god, creation, ekc) is *not*
true?
The usual answer:
""Nothing you can say will change my mind""
Or, they haven't analyzed the subject sufficiently to determine what could
sway them.

Discussion over.

I, otoh, could *easily* be convinced of god, creation--just show me the
beef.
But some tele-evangelist ejaculating in my hair is not convincing. Not to
me, at any rate.
"Intelligent design" is just a slicker hustle, ultimately circular.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

AND,
Make sure whomever you do vote for believes in
ABSOLUTE separation of Church & State--ferchrissakes

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

 

Ever heard of "erosion"? Wind, water, and weather in general tend to
wear the terrain down, thus exposing stuff buried underneath.

It's too bad nature can't erode away the stupidity of the religious
types in the same way...

A lot of them say that "god" has a plan for everyone, and that
everything happens according to "god's" plan.

Does that include murders, rapes, genocide, wars, etc...?



Al

 

If the design is so intelligent, why is it so f'd up?

Wayne

 

Erosion. Wind, water, blowing sand -- all erode rock, and expose underlying
layers.

 

Clearly creationism and ntelligent design is correct,... the facts are
right in front of our faces,... look how many dysfunctional petiphile
priest there are and how many other righteous leaders of god telling
their followers what is right and wrong,... while blowing/dipping/
terrorizing/damning/... who in their right and wrong!?!?
I mean, how can you argue,... they've been doing it long enough,...
they must be right!?
I'm just so glad there are few woman in this group,... their poor
little weak minds might explode thinking about these things... we men
are so much more capable... you know what I mean?

...

 

No one who takes their clothes off and LOOKS in a mirror, can honestly
believe in INTELLEGENT design, period.
jk

 

Both theories are correct. The catch is that you need to allow for those
aliens that transplanted us here and formed religions around themselves
to hide what they actually were.... ;-|)


If you really want some interesting reading go find the Area 51 series
of books by Robert Doherty (Bob Mayer is his real name) He goes through
and breaks down all the religious items and many of the cultural myths
and explains them out as being alien involvement. The guy is a good
writer and makes all of it plausible. And like I told my wife, Who knows
for sure?

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

 

Thanks to all for your responses today. It has been interesting, and
I must admit a little entertaining to hear some other views.

Cheers, Dom.

 

It very clearly is.
OTOH You could claim that the "god" of E. Coli #996453 created the
entire universe, fossils, you & your memories 5 seconds ago.
An infinite number of such claims could be made but not even
the noise "god" has any real operant meaning.

It described nothing even as the folk-tales of the oral
traditions & superstitions kept being edited with each
telling.

BTW, What's wrong with "I don't know." or "Clearly
define the question!!!"?

Anyway, the answer is exactly 42.

 

Teach them to fly.
Use surplus JATO units.

 

BS.
If I claim that there is a red brick on the road at the intersection of
third and union cannot you go check?

"The purpose of fighting is to win." - Gummer

"The purpose of fighting is to win." - Gummer

New Conservative Science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_Museum

Yes they do.

Then how did wingers devolve?

 

At the vets's or the pet/fish shop?

"The purpose of fighting is to win." - Gummer