Note to Autodesk ...

  • Thread starter Thread starter michael puckett
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M

michael puckett

[opinion]

<Hello Anne, I'm hoping you don't axe this.>

It has been suggested that there *MAY* be a move within
the Autodesk camp to eliminate the nntp based newsgroups
and instead develop and pour even MORE funds into the
<cough> web hosted newgroups.

I don't mean to start rumors, be chicken little or even a
drama queen, but if there is ANY truth to this I just want
to clear and have you (the desk) understand, that my parti-
cipation here will reduce to a mere trickle (I recognize
this may cause some cheering; thas alright) if this comes
to fruition.

<Oh no, what if that's what they want?!>

Who on earth convinced you all that the web hosted news
groups were better, preferred or effective?

Was it an ... enterprising web development team perhaps?

They simply are not. Not a single person I've talked to
about this thinks it would be an improvement or "a good
thing".

Mind you none of them are web developers at Autodesk or have
vested interests in web based advertising to pollute our
viewing space either. But I digress.

Amongst other things, and just just off the top of my head,
I can say that the web side is inferior to the nntp side
because the interface is clunky and slow, you cannot peruse
and graze as quickly, the search engine is under powered,
you cannot keep a cache of select threads without copy /
paste / filing calisthenics, formatting is a pain, the
thread hierarchy is difficult to impossible to discern in
the average sized conversation ...

.... and on and on ... <don't get me going> ...

In short PLEASE do not kill the nntp side.

I recognize there needs to be a web web side, for presence
and those poor sots that don't have news readers, but lordy,
I do believe there are far more of us that use the nntp side
than the web side.

An aside ... do you need a good, free news reader? Check out
ThunderBird: http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/ It is excellent.

To close, thank you for taking the time to consider my thoughts,
as negative as they may be. Sorry, I know that's generally the
way I come across. Really, I'm not mean spirited. Thanks for
hearing what I have to say and not necessarilly how I say it.

~ ~ ~

If the intrepid newsgrouper has any thoughts on this topic
I'd let the desk know what they are. Who knows, maybe my
opinion is contrary to the masses. Perhaps you feel the
opposite. Better share your opinion, lest I speak for you.
Akkk, surely you don't want that.

LET THE DESK KNOW. NOW.

<Betting this gets yanked.>

Sincerely,

Michael.

[/opinion]
 
It has been suggested that there *MAY* be a move within
the Autodesk camp to eliminate the nntp based newsgroups
and instead develop and pour even MORE funds into the
<cough> web hosted newgroups.
Click to expand...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo........*cough*

See ya, if that happens.

<fact>
HTML based newsgroups, do indeed, SUCK. Sorry.
</fact>

Matt
[email protected]
[email protected]
 
They asked for your opinion, right?

NNTP is easier to use. G'nite.
 
NNTP is easier to use. G'nite.

For who?

I side with Michael on this one.

Jamie Duncan


Doug Broad said:
They asked for your opinion, right?

NNTP is easier to use. G'nite.


[opinion]

<Hello Anne, I'm hoping you don't axe this.>
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Ditto here also...
No HTML, *PLEASE*

Ted Hicks


After *Matt Stachoni* tickled the keyboard
the following text showed up here:
 
Uhhmm. Didn't read that one too well huh?
I also agree with Michael.
 
Oops, sorry Doug!

Yes, I still agree with Michael, and now you as well...


--
Jamie Duncan

"How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants,
rather than to create it herself."
- Anais Nin (1903-1977)
 
Michael,
I couldn't have said it better.

I have used the web side a few times, but only when messages aren't
synch'ing between the two. I have found it to be very cumbersome compared to
the nntp side.

If Adesk really wants to use a web interface, maybe they should re-think
thier position of VBDesign linking to here. The VbDesign interface is much
better than the one currently in use by Adesk and would require much less
work on the part of the Adesk staff. In fact, I still don't know why they
made VBDesign pull the link when Google, Yahoo, etc. still are linked.

Autodesk, stick with the nntp news and outsource the Web interface if you
must.....

Jeff Mishler

michael puckett said:
[opinion]

<Hello Anne, I'm hoping you don't axe this.>

It has been suggested that there *MAY* be a move within
the Autodesk camp to eliminate the nntp based newsgroups
and instead develop and pour even MORE funds into the
<cough> web hosted newgroups.

I don't mean to start rumors, be chicken little or even a
drama queen, but if there is ANY truth to this I just want
to clear and have you (the desk) understand, that my parti-
cipation here will reduce to a mere trickle (I recognize
this may cause some cheering; thas alright) if this comes
to fruition.

<Oh no, what if that's what they want?!>

Who on earth convinced you all that the web hosted news
groups were better, preferred or effective?

Was it an ... enterprising web development team perhaps?

They simply are not. Not a single person I've talked to
about this thinks it would be an improvement or "a good
thing".

Mind you none of them are web developers at Autodesk or have
vested interests in web based advertising to pollute our
viewing space either. But I digress.

Amongst other things, and just just off the top of my head,
I can say that the web side is inferior to the nntp side
because the interface is clunky and slow, you cannot peruse
and graze as quickly, the search engine is under powered,
you cannot keep a cache of select threads without copy /
paste / filing calisthenics, formatting is a pain, the
thread hierarchy is difficult to impossible to discern in
the average sized conversation ...

... and on and on ... <don't get me going> ...

In short PLEASE do not kill the nntp side.

I recognize there needs to be a web web side, for presence
and those poor sots that don't have news readers, but lordy,
I do believe there are far more of us that use the nntp side
than the web side.

An aside ... do you need a good, free news reader? Check out
ThunderBird: http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/ It is excellent.

To close, thank you for taking the time to consider my thoughts,
as negative as they may be. Sorry, I know that's generally the
way I come across. Really, I'm not mean spirited. Thanks for
hearing what I have to say and not necessarilly how I say it.

~ ~ ~

If the intrepid newsgrouper has any thoughts on this topic
I'd let the desk know what they are. Who knows, maybe my
opinion is contrary to the masses. Perhaps you feel the
opposite. Better share your opinion, lest I speak for you.
Akkk, surely you don't want that.

LET THE DESK KNOW. NOW.

<Betting this gets yanked.>

Sincerely,

Michael.

[/opinion]
Click to expand...
 
Egads. Sometimes I surprise myself.

When I was reading through Survey Monkey's questions, this same thought
occurred to me as well...


..../smarmy-like/ 'have you by any chance noticed how *superiorly* the
web-based interface has been working these past 6 seconds - er, hours - uh,
*months* - yeah, *months* - *that's* the ticket...'


While I didn't provide nearly as many reasons as you did, Michael, one thing
I did mention is that I've found it next to impossible to read with any type
of understanding some of the horrid looking proportional-font web-based code
snips when I've had to try to research any answers - which I really do try
to do before posting new questions here. It's usually ended up being an
exercise in futility. At least in Outlook, I can set things up so that the
text appears with some sane font, like Courier. Yeah, I could probably do
some copying and pasting, but I view doing *that* as an additional and
unwanted step, when all I'm often looking for is information - not unlike
having to electronically scan a dictionary page before I can proceed to
actually read some definition.

Another thing I often find myself doing is sorting alphabetically by
subject, looking for some quick info on subjects that begin with, say,
'gradient hatches', etc. - also by author. I do this *alot*. How can this
be done on the web side of things?... "<-Previous 50 threads Next 50
threads->"

Thanks very much for posting your comments on this.
They are much more eloquent and comprehensive than my own.

I've never used the web-based interface except for generally lengthy and/or
futile information search attempts - and I wouldn't even use it for *that*
except for the fact that every time I've taken the time to finally download
the 150,000 headers or so (for this group) into Outlook, something at
Autodesk's end of things gets hosed, oh, about a day later, thereby forcing
a reset. But, mind you, I'm not bitter about it. I finally just gave up on
hording such a vast reservoir of sortable headers. 'Tis a pity, though,
IMO.

And all I can say about about anyone deciding to leave (should that ever
happen) is I hope they'll be so kind as to let me know where they're heading
off to...

Best regards,
David Kozina
 
Why using this slow and ineffective web hosted scrap?
Nntp based newsgroups are fast and easy to use!!

Cheers
 
I agree with Michael. Just say no to the web side. NTTP is the way to go.

--
Daniel J. Altamura, R.A.
Altamura Architectural Consulting
and SoftWorx, Autodesk Authorized Developer
--------------------------------------------------------------------


michael puckett said:
[opinion]

<Hello Anne, I'm hoping you don't axe this.>

It has been suggested that there *MAY* be a move within
the Autodesk camp to eliminate the nntp based newsgroups
and instead develop and pour even MORE funds into the
<cough> web hosted newgroups.

I don't mean to start rumors, be chicken little or even a
drama queen, but if there is ANY truth to this I just want
to clear and have you (the desk) understand, that my parti-
cipation here will reduce to a mere trickle (I recognize
this may cause some cheering; thas alright) if this comes
to fruition.

<Oh no, what if that's what they want?!>

Who on earth convinced you all that the web hosted news
groups were better, preferred or effective?

Was it an ... enterprising web development team perhaps?

They simply are not. Not a single person I've talked to
about this thinks it would be an improvement or "a good
thing".

Mind you none of them are web developers at Autodesk or have
vested interests in web based advertising to pollute our
viewing space either. But I digress.

Amongst other things, and just just off the top of my head,
I can say that the web side is inferior to the nntp side
because the interface is clunky and slow, you cannot peruse
and graze as quickly, the search engine is under powered,
you cannot keep a cache of select threads without copy /
paste / filing calisthenics, formatting is a pain, the
thread hierarchy is difficult to impossible to discern in
the average sized conversation ...

... and on and on ... <don't get me going> ...

In short PLEASE do not kill the nntp side.

I recognize there needs to be a web web side, for presence
and those poor sots that don't have news readers, but lordy,
I do believe there are far more of us that use the nntp side
than the web side.

An aside ... do you need a good, free news reader? Check out
ThunderBird: http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/ It is excellent.

To close, thank you for taking the time to consider my thoughts,
as negative as they may be. Sorry, I know that's generally the
way I come across. Really, I'm not mean spirited. Thanks for
hearing what I have to say and not necessarilly how I say it.

~ ~ ~

If the intrepid newsgrouper has any thoughts on this topic
I'd let the desk know what they are. Who knows, maybe my
opinion is contrary to the masses. Perhaps you feel the
opposite. Better share your opinion, lest I speak for you.
Akkk, surely you don't want that.

LET THE DESK KNOW. NOW.

<Betting this gets yanked.>

Sincerely,

Michael.

[/opinion]
Click to expand...
 
Michael -

This message thread won't be removed as it would only add fuel to
the rumor. I urge any of you to answer the survey adn state any
feelings on NNTP or HTTP access in the comments section.

Note to all - no one who has any inside information on ANY aspect
of how Autodesk manages ANY of its policies, software decisions,
future releases, etc. etc. would ever speak in public. Take this
thread as rumor.
 
I agree that the web-based forums are, at best, a pain in the nether regions. But for some of us that is the only interface we to which we have access. The firewall/email protocol in place here prevents access to the nntp side of these forums. And while losing my charming personality may be good reason to drop the web-based side, there may be others in the same boat and their loss may be detrimental to the value of these forums.

IMMHO, it would be an improvement if the web-based side was made to emulate the nntp side, with cascading post headings (with authors) highlighted by read/unread. You know, sorta like it was prior to the latest "improvements".
 
Remarks in this message group and the one in ACAD 2005 have been
gathered and passed to the team performing the survey.
-
Anne Brown
Discussion Groups Administrator
Autodesk, Inc.
 
I've been on both sides of the fence as far as use on this one. No way I
would ever go back to web based.

J. Logan
 
While I agree with majority of outspoken on this thread that the web-based
NG is slow and cumbersome, I would never want AutoDesk to take away someone
else's only means of access. Likewise, I hope they don't take away my faster
access. I found out many years ago there is more than one way to "create the
same drawing" (politically uncorrect = "skin a cat"). I have lived by the
premise, that AutoCAD customization (in any form) is the only way to go.
Anything that increases my productivity is a plus. I would hope AutoDesk
realizes that anything that decreases productivity is a detriment to all.
 
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