North Arrow orientation

Hello All,

Does anybody know if there is ANSI (or other) standard for orienting the
North Arrow. I've always been taught, formally and informally that id should
always point up or to the right or any angle in between.

Where can I find documentation to support this?

Thanks for the help,

RCM

 

Does anybody know if there is ANSI (or other) standard for orienting the

This has been beaten to death at least once, though I can't find the thread
now.

As far as I know, there isn't a universal rule on this. If you're trying to
win an argument, you might eventually find some rule that covers your
specific discipline, but I'm quite sure there isn't any law that covers all
drafting.

I've been practicing architecture for about 25 years, and every set of
building plans I've ever seen have been squared up with the sheet, with the
front of the building at the bottom of the sheet. Nobody cares where north
is. If an arrow is included, for orientation on a large project, it nearly
always shows true north vs "plan" north -- so that the elevations can be
labeled north, south, etc even though they aren't exactly oriented that way.

The contrary school of thought comes from surveyors or mapmakers, who aren't
drawing anything but undeveloped ground. Some of them will tell you that
north "MUST" be straight up in all cases. But my buddy the highway engineer
says he's never seen engineering drawings for a highway done that way --
they're drawn with north generally pointing to the upper right, as you say,
and the sheet aligned to that section of road.

It depends on your discipline. If you're drawing a map, people expect north
to be up. If you're drawing man-made objects like buildings, people expect
the object to determine the orientation, with no regard at all to where
north is. You don't draw the object that you're designing all cockeyed just
because of compass directions. You draw it to fit on the sheet nicely and --
mainly -- to be understandable.

On large scale built developments, the normal practice is to orient whatever
is the major axis of the development -- usually the principal highway --
horizontally on the sheet, with the "entrance" to the development at the
bottom. If that puts north pointing down, so be it.

 

i set orientation to hold the dominant base line (usually a R.O.W.) at 0
degrees, unless otherwise dictated by local codes. Practicality supersedes
convention - in this case. YMMV

 

As someone working in Surveying I would agree with your friend. Mostly up
and right unless there is an overriding reason for another orientation. Also
with highway work you usually have stationing increasing to the right. That
can sometimes conflict with the up/right rule.

I wish your were correct about Surveyors only drawing undeveloped ground.
around 80% of my time locating and drawing existing features. At someplace
like the Bronx Zoo that can get complicated.

North up the page for Cartography is mainly so the users can orient
themselves quickly.

Allen

 

No offense intended. In my field most of the "surveys" I see are bare sites,
the drawings you describe would be included in what I'd call development
drawings, i.e. the existing conditions.

 

I would be surprised if this is the case. The convention taught here in
Australia is that north should generally point to the top or LEFT of the
page. This is so that text can be read right way up as text should
generally flow horizontally left to right or vertically bottom to top.

The one exception I have come across is for things like evacuation plans
where the entry of the building or site is at the bottom or right and
you move into the building or site bottom to top, or right to left
respectively, irrespective of the direction of north.

 

I point mine north?

 

Thats the way I was taught. For the same reason you indicated as well as
plans being bound on the left. Of course I'm in surveying, so north is
instinctively up. I've only seen a few prints in my career with north
pointing down. I guess some people can't orient themselves on the ground
unless the plans are just the way they are standing. It always reminds me of
a friend of mine who, when following a street map, has to keep turning it
around every corner to orient himself. {:-o
____
Tom

 

Go to http://discussion.autodesk.com/index2.jspa?categoryID=22.
Put in "North arrow" with out the "" as search words and take a
look at all the past conversations on this subject.

 

Made me laugh to read your question....
A year or so ago, there was a major conversation here about that very subject.

I was taught to make North either Up or to the LEFT. pointing it to the right is
like pointing it down when the paper is turned to portrait position.

There seemed to me last time around that there is no set law that it has to be this
or that. At least none that will get you sent to jail without passing Go.

I have an architect friend who insists that North always should point in the
direction of the entry or front door. His view is that contractors are a stupid lot,
and that is the only way to get them to know the correct orientation of the building
to North. Maybe he once had an experience where the the building was built
backwards.

Another friend agrees with me about up and to the left.

I have found others who agree with my first friend about pointing it toward the entry
direction.

Jack Talsky

 

If I remember correctly it was long.

Jack Talsky

 

Ditto here. The first drafting class I attended back in, geez, '67, we were instructed that North was ALWAYS UP OR TO THE LEFT. Been doing it that way ever since, although I've seen the arrow pointed in every way you can imagine.

I even drew one down once. After we'd completed the entire package, the owner decided he wanted the front door facing North instead of West. With hand drawings it was loads easier to rotate the North arrow than it was to re-draw all the building plans.

 

Good old hand drawings

Did you go through the Pinbar Dark Ages?

 

I was disappointed that I could not find a definitive answer in my old textbooks, or even in the Architectural Graphics Standards.

The practice I was taught was to have the drawing “readable†from either the bottom or the right side of the page. Typically this means to have north pointing up, to the left, or somewhere in between. Just keep the plan clear and easy to read.

Doug Draper
Lea+Elliott, Inc.
www.leaelliott.com

 

Did you go through the Pinbar Dark Ages?<<

Oh yeah.... puke.

Sleeve garters, split blade inking pens, mixing my own ink, blow dryers, and razor blades for erasers.....
AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<shudder>
<breathe deep>
<count to 3,147>


Oh how I love CAD...
happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy

 

Just another vote for UP and LEFT.

Terry Scanlon

 

I agree with you. Quite frankly I don't see what difference it makes which
direction the North Arrow points on the sheet. In my 25+ years in this
field (architectural), I've never worked in an office that required the
North Arrow to be oriented UP or RIGHT (or LEFT). I've always drawn the
building with the front wall(s) parallel to the bottom or right side of the
sheet. It all depends on the shape of the building. The North Arrow is
then aligned with the north arrow shown on the site plans based on the
building orientatiuon on the site. We've never had any problems with
consultants or builders who couldn't marry-up the building plans with the
site plans.

I pulled out some of my old architectural drafting textbooks from school,
and every single floorplan example is drawn with the front of the building
parallel to the bottom of the sheet with the north arrow pointing to true
north. And I don't any statements that say the North Arrow must point
upward.

 

Hello again,

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the input. I wasn't sure if there was a
"standard or not, but will agree, as long as the drawings are easy to read
and logical it won't matter that much.

Regards,

Ron C

 

No offense taken. More or less just FYI. The more we know about the people
we have to deal with the better.

 

Actually a very good answer. In Surveying our North arrows not only point
north but you're supposed to reference which north. Magnetic, True, Grid
(which grid datum), or based on some reference document such as a
subdivision map or deed.

Shall we talk Scale? 1" = 16.5'

Allen