Layer Filter Deleting and re-instating

[Ted Broekhuizen]

Several months ago I posted a request on the deletion of layer filters. This was responded to and a very good routine was provided. However, I have been aware of a rather annoying reality that even after deleting dozens (sometimes hundreds) of layer filters from many files with this routine they reappear. How does this occur and better yet, is there a way to stop this from happening.

Thanks in advance.

 

[R.K. McSwain]

It's like a virus - it travels with any entity in the drawing. For example, if you cut/paste an entity from a drawing that has 2500 layer filters into a new empty drawing with zero layer filters - then the new empty drawing will also gain the 2500 layer filters....

 

[Mark Propst]

if you use a block library, check all block files as one or more of them may be 'infected'. I've been wanting to write a objectdbx prog to search a directory of dwgs for layerfilters and delete them for just that reason....when I get time.... good luck Mark

 

[ffejgreb]

Another problem though is that it isn't only related to blocks. I make use of xref's extensively and if the file being ref'd has filters, they come as well. I have deleted the filters in a parent drawing only to have them return some time later without having detached/reattached or adding any new ref's. I guess where I'm going is that it may not technically be a virus, but it sure acts like one.

The bigger problem is that when this function was added to the main program this "bug" wasn't found. Isn't it fun always being a beta tester? Thank god we have such good programmers in here that can fix most of the problems that should have been found and fixed prior to the program being released.

 

[Gordon Price]

Several months ago I posted a request on the deletion of layer filters. This was responded to and a very good routine was provided. However, I have been aware of a rather annoying reality that even after deleting dozens (sometimes hundreds) of layer filters from many files with this routine they reappear. How does this occur and better yet, is there a way to stop this from happening.

Isn't this fixed in R2004?

Gordon

 

[James Maeding]

I think we need to gather together frustrated users and have a march on the Autodesk headquarters. They seem to have missed the fact that they opened up their database to a world of pollution. Layer filters are one thing, but application id's do the same thing. You get one sloppy subconsultant and a beginner acad user, and the app id's spread like viruses. You have to unload all xrefs and use a special tool to clean the app id's. Half the time things crash. Of all the things I would think autodesk would protect, it is the quality of its database. Heck, they even wrote A2004 to compress and uncompress the dwgs. You would think they would address bloating problems first. It kills me because they have such an opportunity to make a real difference and they seem to ignore it. Autodesk, please change it so the filters, app id's and future database enhancements do not transmit their junk through xrefs or inserted blocks. The good data is ok, but leftover data and data that should be considered as "owned" by a file should not transmit to other files. I will hammer on this until it is fixed. My company wastes more time on this than any other issue. Who cares about some new civil 3d software....they need to fix the fundamentals first. I can't even touch more advanced things until my users feel confident they will not have to constantly clean and watch for things going wrong. This issue makes me sick, they do so much good stuff and then let things like this stew.

"Ted Broekhuizen"
|>Several months ago I posted a request on the deletion of layer filters. |>This was responded to and a very good routine was provided. |>However, I have been aware of a rather annoying reality that even after |>deleting dozens (sometimes hundreds) of layer filters from many files with |>this routine they reappear. How does this occur and better yet, is there a |>way to stop this from happening. |> |>Thanks in advance.
|>

James Maeding
Civil Engineer/Programmer

 

[Rudy Tovar]

I agree that plain junk shouldn't be caried over, but leave the good data like xdata alone. You know the odd thing is that groups don't get carried over, or at least in the older autocad versions, I haven't really tested it on 2004.

We had our own custom utilities that I showed you James using Groups, but If we copy clipped them over to another drawing they fell apart. I felt it should have at least check the drawing and prompt to confirm overwrite or just add it to the drawing. Instead they didn't even get carried over.

I think we need to gather together frustrated users and have a march on the Autodesk headquarters. They seem to have missed the fact that they opened up their database to a world of pollution. Layer filters are one thing, but application id's do the same thing. You get one sloppy subconsultant and a beginner acad user, and the app id's spread like viruses. You have to unload all xrefs and use a special tool to clean the app id's. Half the time things crash. Of all the things I would think autodesk would protect, it is the quality of its database. Heck, they even wrote A2004 to compress and uncompress the dwgs. You would

think they would address bloating problems

first.
It kills me because they have such an opportunity to make a real

difference and they seem to ignore it.

Autodesk, please change it so the filters, app id's and future database

enhancements do not transmit their junk through

xrefs or inserted blocks.
The good data is ok, but leftover data and data that should be considered

as "owned" by a file should not transmit to

other files.
I will hammer on this until it is fixed. My company wastes more time on

this than any other issue. Who cares about

some new civil 3d software....they need to fix the fundamentals first. I

can't even touch more advanced things until my

 

[Doug Broad]

R.K.
Are you talking about ACAD layer filters or some third party layer application or the express tools lman? I have never had a layer filter appear by cutting and pasting objects or by attaching an xref. The ADT layer manager looks promising.

Thanks,
Doug

It's like a virus - it travels with any entity in the drawing. For example, if you cut/paste an entity from a drawing that has 2500 layer filters into a new empty drawing with zero layer filters - then the new empty drawing will also gain the 2500 layer filters....

 

[James Maeding]

Its the filters that appear in the upper left of the layer dialog. We are not talking about layer states, that is different and does not infect other drawings. Just make a few filters and then xref that drawing, they will stick in the drawing. It does not become a problem until you get a file with 200 layer filters and dont notice it for a month.

"Doug Broad"
|>R.K.
|>Are you talking about ACAD layer filters or some third party |>layer application or the express tools lman? I have never had a layer |>filter appear by cutting and pasting objects or by attaching an xref. |>The ADT layer manager looks promising. |> |>Thanks, |>Doug |> |> |>It's like a virus - it travels with any entity in the drawing. For example, if you cut/paste an entity from a drawing that has 2500 |>layer filters into a new empty drawing with zero layer filters - then the new empty drawing will also gain the 2500 layer |>filters.... |> |>> Several months ago I posted a request on the deletion of layer filters. |>> This was responded to and a very good routine was provided. |>> However, I have been aware of a rather annoying reality that even after |>

James Maeding
Civil Engineer/Programmer

 

[Doug Broad]

Hi James,
I am using ADT 2004. I just tried to get the layer filters to go from one drawing to another by xreffing, and by cutting and pasting and couldn't get it to happen. The drawing that I was xreffing and cutting and pasting had 15 layer filters. I couldn't get any into the new drawing. I even tried inserting.

Can you give me a sequence that makes it happen? I would think it would only happen if you set one drawing (containing the filters) as a template.

Regards,
Doug

 

[James Maeding]

yup, not sure if I like groups being carried over or not. The more fancy the database gets, the more it is cross referenced between entity names and layers and text styles and app id's. It is getting to be too unstable and bloated. The way I would handle this is to have a util a user could run that would get rid of a list of things. This util would be core autocad. I would also automatically eliminate unused app ids and not let them infect other drawings. We need this so bad, we would pay extra for it - something fast and stable, not a 3rd party add on. Experienced users are willing to pay for upgrades and subscription, we just want what we want, not what adesk decides to hype in the next version. The bigger they are, the harder they fall though. As an industry, we need a common open database format badly. Not sure if thats like asking for communism though. Maybe that would demotivate development of higher tools due to lack of large chunks of capital.
I think its a matter of time.

"Rudy Tovar"
|>I agree that plain junk shouldn't be caried over, but leave the good data |>like xdata alone. You knowd the odd thing is that groups don't get carried |>over, or at least in the older autocad versions, I haven't really tested it |>on 2004. |> |>We had our own custom utilities that I showed you James using Groups, but If |>we copy clipped them over to another drawing they fell apart. I felt it |>should have at least check the drawing and prompt to confirm overwrite or |>just add it to the drawing. Instead they didn't even get carried over.

James Maeding
Civil Engineer/Programmer

 

[James Maeding]

You may be right, I was thinking in A2002. I should have mentioned that. I have to say A2004 does have some nice things and some bugs were fixed. Just not the most critical ones IMHO...<g> Do you know if the app id's are created with adt? Do you ever get like 50k of them in your drawings?

"Doug Broad"
|>Hi James,
|>I am using ADT 2004. I just tried to get the layer filters to go from one |>drawing to another by xreffing, and by cutting and pasting and couldn't |>get it to happen. The drawing that I was xreffing and cutting and pasting |>had 15 layer filters. I couldn't get any into the new drawing. I even |>tried inserting. |> |>Can you give me a sequence that makes it happen? I would think it |>would only happen if you set one drawing (containing the filters) as |>a template. |> |>Regards, |>Doug |> |> |>> Its the filters that appear in the upper left of the layer dialog. |>> We are not talking about layer states, that is different and does not infect other drawings. |>> Just make a few filters and then xref that drawing, they will stick in the drawing. |>> It does not become a problem until you get a file with 200 layer filters and dont notice it for a month. |>> |>

James Maeding
Civil Engineer/Programmer

 

[Jeff Mishler]

Interesting.....
I just opened 2 drawings, the first has no user Layer filters, the second has about 75 Layer filters. Grip selected a line in the second drawing, ctrl-c, switch to first drawing, ctrl-v, select point to insert. Just like that the first drawing now has every Layer filter the second one does.

R2002
LDD3

Jeff

 

[James Maeding]

I wonder if you could somehow view the clipboard to see what info is being passed through. Its probably gibberish though.

"Jeff Mishler"
|>Interesting.....
|>I just opened 2 drawings, the first has no user Layer filters, the |>second has about 75 Layer filters. |>Grip selected a line in the second drawing, ctrl-c, switch to first |>drawing, ctrl-v, select point to insert. |>Just like that the first drawing now has every Layer filter the second |>one does. |> |>R2002 |>LDD3 |> |>Jeff |> |>|>> Hi James, |>> I am using ADT 2004. I just tried to get the layer filters to go from |>one |>> drawing to another by xreffing, and by cutting and pasting and |>couldn't |>> get it to happen. The drawing that I was xreffing and cutting and |>pasting |>> had 15 layer filters. I couldn't get any into the new drawing. I |>even |>> tried inserting. |>> |>> Can you give me a sequence that makes it happen? I would think it |>> would only happen if you set one drawing (containing the filters) as |>> a template. |>> |>> Regards, |>> Doug |>> |>> |>|>> > Its the filters that appear in the upper left of the layer dialog. |>> > We are not talking about layer states, that is different and does |>not infect other drawings. |>> > Just make a few filters and then xref that drawing, they will stick |>in the drawing. |>> > It does not become a problem until you get a file with 200 layer |>filters and dont notice it for a month. |>> > |>> |>> |>

James Maeding
Civil Engineer/Programmer

 

[Jeff Mishler]

In XP it just shows the entities as if I was in a drawing containing only those entities....

 

[Mike Weaver]

Herman,
Try updating your drivers. With 9 licenses here, the perception (since I've done no testing to quantify it) is that 2004 is both more stable and faster than 2002. I do have one of my machines very similar to yours, slightly less ram and slightly slower cpu, that experiences none of the problems you describe. Oh. Is that file size correct? Are they really half a gigabyte files? If so, then I am not surprised that there is a slow-down. Are you cacheing viewports? How about isavepercent? Both of these can be optimized for performance.

Still. I would have to say the problem is either a driver problem or an acad setting that needs to change.

Mike Weaver

 

[Doug Broad]

Jeff and James,
I was able to replicate this behavior with 2002 but it appears to be fixed in 2004. Strange that a cut and paste would have transfered the filters. I'll have to look into it when I get some time. Anyway, one more reason to upgrade I guess. ;-)

Regards,
Doug

 

[Laurie Comerford]

Hi Herman,

You have 1 Gb RAM and say you open 1Gb or 1.5Gb of drawing file data.

ergo: Disk swapping to hold all that data. You can't seriously expect this to be fast.

Don't forget that AutoCAD holds all your edit history as well, so this has to be disk swapped. In your case every command would involve disk swapping.

Just for curiosity, what happens if you plot one of these drawings. Is there any white space left on the paper ?

I seem to be able to nicely fill an A1 plot with somewhere between 50 and 200Kb.

 

[David Kozina]

I don't know for certain, but I suspect Herman has oodles of dimensions in his drawings. They'll eat up space like there's no tomorrow, IIRC.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[R.K. McSwain]

Named Layer Filters.
Using acadver 15.06