Important for everybody

Hi Friends,

Do submit your reply on this matter.
Here I’ve some comfusion regarding sale autolisp programs
Lot of free lisp programs available on net. Also some sites are selling lisp program.

Is it valid (leagal) to sell own autolisp programs. Through net with out autodesk Permission. ?

I had developed one Iso dradting software which works in autocad by using lisp and menus. Compatible with acad 2000/4/5.

I am planning to sell it on net.
Pls advice

Regards,
Amit Vedak

 

Yes, you are allowed to sell your programs.
As long as your programs works WITH autocad and you DO NOT include code that
is property of Autodesk, there should be no problem.

Be aware that there is an enormous pile of programs on the net, make sure
the program you sell has to offer something that others don't.

Regards,
Jan

 

LSP programming was developed by MIT in the 1050's. This was long before
Autodesk was even thought of. Lsp routines are copyrighted by the person upon
inception, but if that person gives or sells a lsp routine to another person or
persons, then he/she loses their copyright to that routine. You have no problem
selling/giving away lsp routines.

 

Walt,
Where did you get that idea? If that were true then Autodesk would
have no copyright protection for ACAD once it sold its first copy. Singers would lose
their copyright on their music when they sold their first CD copy.

 

Lsp routines are copyrighted by the person upon inception, but if that
person gives or sells a lsp routine to another person or persons, then
he/she loses their copyright to that routine. You have no problem
selling/giving away lsp routines.

Huh? I'm sorry, but that doesn't appear to make any sense, and have any
relation to copyright law.

The whole point of copyrights is to protect the exclusive right of the
copyright holder to reproduce and distribute the copyrighted work. And, by
the way, the exclusive right to create "derivative works" based on the
copyrighted material. Copyright protection normally lasts for 70 years past
the author's lifetime.

Selling, giving away, or otherwise "distributing" the copyrighted work does
not in any way mean surrendering the rights to it. The government copyright
office http://www.copyright.gov/ is a good source on the simple basics of
copyright law. They say:

"Mere ownership of a book, manuscript, painting, or any other copy or
phonorecord does not give the possessor the copyright. The law provides that
transfer of ownership of any material object that embodies a protected work
does not of itself convey any rights in the copyright."

"Any or all of the copyright owner's exclusive rights or any subdivision of
those rights may be transferred, but the transfer of exclusive rights is not
valid unless that transfer is in writing and signed by the owner of the
rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent."

I don't own the copyright to a book, record, or computer program just
because I bought a copy. Nor do I have the right to distribute it, or to
make copies of it, outside the area of fair use. Entire industries would
collapse if it were true that you lose your copyright as soon as you sell
the item one time.

 

No problem selling your programs (as long as they do not contain Copyrighted source from others). It is good practice in your 'source' files to place a (C)opyright.... comment to identify (you) as the source, and year of code.e.g.
(C)opyright, by 'Name' or 'Business Name', 2004.
This helps identify original code - but gives you no legal rights other than copyright.

Bob

 

(C)opyright, by 'Name' or 'Business Name', 2004.

It's also considered good form to include the words "All rights reserved." I
don't think this changes anything as far as US copyright -- which doesn't
require a copyright notice at all -- but helps with international copyright
protection.

Also, if you really want to be protected it's wise to register the
copyright -- see http://www.copyright.gov/register/. This isn't necessary
in terms of owning the copyright, which is automatic, but it can make a
*huge* difference in the damages you can claim if you ever wind up in court.
See the reference for details.

 

LSP programming was developed by MIT in the 1050's. This was long before

WOW! I'll say!

 

Tom,
Agreed. Good advice.

Bob

 

Way before computers even..WoW.

 

The Warlords of Europe must've been very excited!
That was the Same year that St. Bernard of Menthon established his hospice in the Swiss Alps. )


Bill

 

It's still true - MIT developed lsp programming for the old IBM computers, long before pc's were
thought of. It is considered the "grandfather" of programming. As for copyright, once someone develops
a written book, program, movie, etc it is considered copyrighted by that person. He/she can give or
sell the item (obviously with written consent). He/she can only get damages of three time the value of
the material for copyright infringement IF the item is registered with the copyright office. Autodesk
does not have copyright to lsp programming and never did EXCEPT for their specific lsp routines. Been
involved in copyright court action and it gets very tedious and complicated.

 

P.S. for those of you out there that have or are using your private lsp routines at your company - once
having done so, you have "given" the routine to the company whether you think so or not. Been there - done
that.

 

Yes, such as <name>.lsp. It is, as you say, a lisp program or routine.

 

Even if it was created off site, off comany time??

 

P.S. for those of you out there that have or are using your private lsp
routines at your company - once

think so or not. Been there - done

That's right, Walt, it's been discussed in depth before, and there are a lot
of innocent souls who don't think it "should" be that way, but it is.

Relative to damages, I haven't investigated software copyrights in
particular -- since I'm clear on the fact that everything I write is the
company's property -- but with regard to architectural works, the
distinction is that without registration of the copyright, you can only sue
for "actual" damages, which would typically be the architectural fees lost
due to the infringement -- which might not be enough to pay the lawyers to
run it through court. However, if it's registered, you can also claim
"punitive" damages and recover court costs. That may be the triple damages
you refer to.

In the case of a large architectural fee, this is an enormous difference in
what you can recover. In the case of an inexpensive lisp program, it might
not be worth the bother. In the areas that concern me, people seldom waste
their time going to court over a single infringement, unless vast sums of
money are involved. Generally it's the repeat infringements -- like somebody
selling stuff commercially which belongs to you -- which warrant a lawsuit.

 

<<Even if it was created off site, off comany time?? >>

It really depends on the contract/agreement you have with your employer. Most attempt to have the employee sign an agreement at hire that gives the employer rights to everything, whether on the clock or not. If you've signed a sheet like that you may be out of luck.

Some of us have contracted that all our intellectual creations belong to us, but are licensed for use by our employers for the duration of our employment.

 

P.S. for those of you out there that have or are using your private lsp routines at your company - once
having done so, you have "given" the routine to the company whether you think so or not. Been there - done
that.<<

Walt,
And wouldn't it be somewhat hard to "nail down" what is a copy write infringment as far as a lot of the "simple" lisp is concerned?
I've noticed that some of what I've written (through just banging my head here to develop) is already out there (maybe slightly different but accomplishes the same thing).

I just accept that I work for my company and that they have invested in me (as I knew nothing about lisping before I got here) so I have no problem "giving" them what I've done here.

I believe also that no written programming will ever carry a company because you also need the person behind it that can improvise maintain and improve the programs to keep things on the cutting edge.

Bill


Bill

 

Unfortunately - yes. Having used it at the company, you have given permission
regardless of whether you SPECIFICALLY did so in writing. As for me, I would NOT
put in on the hard drive at a company but load it from a diskette but, that
would still be letting the company have ownership of it. Believe me, you don't
want to get into a civil suit defense on this - in civil courts you don't need
the company to prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" - only preponderence of
evidence is all they need.

 

That is the other part which I didn't want to go into in length. On the other
hand, say you are a contractor and work out of your home. Then, anything you do
for a company or individual is copyrighted by you and not owned by the other
party. However, just to be sure, I would have a contract stipulating this in
detail - and drated by a lawyer whose speciality is copyright law.