Does anyone else do this?

You're in part mode and you've modified your model somehow, which has
caused a feature to fail, so you use clip/suppress. Then when you look
at your tree, the arrow indicating where you are in the model has gone
to the bottom, after all the features you've just suppressed. If you
need to create a feature in order to get the rest of the suppressed
features to regen, it will of course be after all the suppressed ones.

I do this several times a day and after using ProE for 12 years. I
create a new feature and - woops - it's at the bottom of the tree
after all those suppressed ones. "Damn I did it again!" Buts what's
even more annoying is I can't just drag the new feature up the tree
and place it after the last regenerated one, because ProE won't place
the new feature *before* a suppressed feature. Why?

Also I can't just drag the arrow up the tree to after the last
regenerated feature for the same reason - ProE won't put you *before*
a suppressed feature. WHY? This seems like such a simple thing so I
don't understand why it doesn't work this way.

 

the arrow indicating where you are in the model

Can't help with an explanation of the logic and rationale, or lack
thereof, but if (you don't say) you're looking for a way out; create
a feature (any feat; datum, annotation, etc.) and drag it above the
last generated feature. Now drag the last generated feature above the
newly created feature. You can now drag the Insert point above the
newly created feature and go about your business.

 

Yeah, I do that several times a day :~P

 

I certainly understand the need for an occasional vent.
An appropriate subject line would have prevented my wasting
time trying to be helpful, though, when a simple "Yeah, sucks
don't it?" was the desired response.

 

I'm missing something. Why aren't you able to use the Fix Model method
to begin building the new feature on-the-spot?

That said, I agree that suppressed features and insert mode are a problem.

Dave

 

No, I've never done that, don't think I even knew clip/suppress does as you
say. I just go into the Dreaded Resolve Mode and fix the feature failure,
including, as Geesaman suggested, using Fix Model (for features that need
fixing before the failed one because they caused the current feature to
fail). I guess I'm also left with questions, such as why you'd ignore the
built in "insert" (Resolve Mode) and try to do that by the back door
(suppressing a bunch of features, then trying to ignore and make a big end
run around them). All I can think is that this is something you learned a
long time ago and have been beating your head against the wall ever since.
You might reconsider doing it this way, bite the bullet and learn to use
Resolve Mode (other than clip/suppress).

The only reason I can think of for using clip/suppress is to quickly get out
of the DRM so you can reload the part and start to figure out what went
wrong. If you're using Intralink, you can reload the part easily by doing
'File>Update>Current' and it restores the file to the last saved version. If
you wanted to learn resolve feature failures, I'm sure I saw webcast
specifically on that topic at PTC.com

David Janes

 

...questions, such as why you'd ignore the built in "insert"

Scoff, harrrumph. Ok. I see.
I've tried that in the past:
Fix Model
..Feature
...Confirm
....Insert Mode
shows Insert Mode Menu Manager with available choices of

Cancel and Return. No Activate.

The reason there is no Activate is because I am working
with Insert Mode Activated when the feature failure occurs.
The 'trick' is to Cancel Insert Mode. The model tries to
regen and cycles back to Resolve Mode and THEN I can, once
more Fix Model, Feature, ...

I don't dread Resolve Mode. Very rarely do I meet with
frustration after ... Clip Suppress, take a break, come
back and sort it out. Is that what you mean by 'back door'?
;^)

 

We don't always get the desired response from others. Your problem is
how to live in such a nasty world.

 

The main reason is that I want to stop and retrieve an older version
of the file so I can have a good look at the failed feature. I can
also save it at this point so the work I have done since the previous
regen is not lost. Calling a backup model on the fly is okay on
occasion, but I get a bit antsy knowing everything that's changed is
in session and not on the hard drive. ProE even crashes without
warning sometimes!

Often for me working on a file is a process of grinding through an
existing model (because the designer wants to make some changes to the
appearance, size, etc) going feature by feature to update it. I'd
rather save along the way.

 

You're right Dave, I could do this, and it's habit that makes me do it
the way I do. When the feature fails, if I:

#Fix Model
#Feature
#Confirm
#Insert Mode
#Activate then pick the last feature before the failed one I am
then where I want to be and I can save it at that point if I want.

Of course it's a lot more menu picks this way. If I could just drag
that arrow up the tree....

I think I will make this one of those enhancement requests.

 

You're right Dave, I could do this, and it's habit that makes me do it
the way I do. When the feature fails, if I:

#Fix Model
#Feature
#Confirm
#Insert Mode
#Activate then pick the last feature before the failed one I am
then where I want to be and I can save it at that point if I want.

Of course it's a lot more menu picks this way. If I could just drag
that arrow up the tree....

I think I will make this one of those enhancement requests.

__________________________________________

Would "Roll Model" (before failed feature) do what you want? However, the
most frequent repair scenario I've come across involves simpler stuff than
Fix Model, for example, Quick Fix>Redefine or Replace references
(investigating with a backup model usually helps with figuring out what
references need to be replaced). If that worked then no need for
clip/suppress and no need to slide the Insert bar up through dozens or
hundreds of suppressed features. Talk about tedious and time consuming! just
try to get that bar to slide when your destination requires the bar to
scroll above the last visible feature, hopping up one feature at a time. Or
you do the scroll bar and drag some more, scroll bar, drag some more, etc.
Think I'll pass on this "easy" way.

David Janes

 

one has to think of a situation where a complex model needs maintenance
that was created by someone else or long time ago... every now & then
essential features fail to regen with only slightly varied dimensions!

The best way to handle this is with two parallel sessions of Pro/E,
one of them read only. I prefer to change the background color to RED,
so I always know which one I work on and which one is for analysis.

This method is even better with two seats/monitors side by side ,
so it is easy to identify faulty features in the "still-alive" model
using their ID no and the model tree - kind of forensic CAD surgery,
e. g. when its about to repair difficult "use quilt" features.

Walther

 

Model Tree Items Display; clear the Suppressed Objects tick box.


A person such as myself reading this discussion might get the impression
that there's something inherently 'bad' about Clip Suppress or slovenly
about anyone that would us it. If that is so would someone please
make that case.

On a parallel, re: "slide the Insert bar up through dozens or hundreds of
suppressed features"; I don't often work with a Model Tree longer than a
page or two in length having Grouped features solely for the purpose of
keeping it short, use them as 'volatile' structures, Grouping and
Ungrouping to shift relevant and irrelevant to task at hand features into
view. Doesn't everyone?

 

Yes, I've done it this way too. I have two monitors too so it's
useful. I also change the background color, in fact I have several
mapkeys converted to menu icons that change the syscol. I use one to
change it to white whenever I need to print a shaded view or save a
jpeg. I have another to change it to the old blue if I'm feeling
nostalgic, plus a couple of gray shaded backgrounds.

 

I group things too, but sometimes it's a pain because if one of the
features in the group fails, then the whole group fails. I also
dislike sliding the Insert bar up the tree if it's more than a page
because you have to hold it up above the top of the tree and watch the
tree scroll up and let go of the button at just the right time.

 

I group things too, but sometimes it's a pain because if one of the
features in the group fails, then the whole group fails.
__________________

This might be a different subject in assemblies where I also use groups a
lot. The behavior is certainly different. There you can have the group
regenerate, but have all the components in the group frozen, no indication
unless you run Model Check. However, using the Search tool, search on
Component and select Frozen on the Status page will find all those
components for you.

David Janes

 

And this gets the OP's "Insert" bar where he needs it?

Not "bad", just a seemingly eleborate work around to no apparent advantage
over the tools designed for the job. The only advantage mentioned was
scrolling an insert bar vs a couple menu picks (typically automated with a
map key). Again, the advantage seemed illusory.

Groups are inherently volatile if only because of the lack of functionality
for maintaining them. While you can drag/add a feature to a group, you can't
remove features. So ungrouping and reconstituting the group is normal. But,
you're right, it's a very handy way of organizing and maintaining the model
tree, making it more obvious what's going on (as long as you rename
meaningfully) and reducing it's length. In fact, it's a fairly common
practice of mine to get the end of a modelling session and to start dragging
features around, specifically to make them easier to group. The other great
advantage of groups is that you can pattern them.

David Janes

 

Again, the advantage seemed illusory.

I don't see any Clear Advantage either way. I do think
that those without training and / or without pre-Wildfire
experience (me on both counts) will be biased toward using
Clip Suppress, for good or bad, until they learn to get over
the panic attack (a conditioned reaction if you come up from
the low end) associate with a feature failure and get familiar
with Resolve Mode Menu Manager. For practical purposes it
doesn't (?, therefore I ask) make a hill of beans difference
which way you go with the exception of the Grouped feature that
fails; you gotta go Menu Manager that way either to resolve the
issue or Ungroup Failed if you opted to Suppress.

Of course you can, albeit with some minor caveats. That may have
been new to WF2.

And Unpattern them. Comes in handy sometimes.

 

Resolve mode has been around for a very long time, at least 10 years.

Like I said, the advantage for me is that I can stop and save my file
at that point before I go forward to resolve. There's nothing more
infuriating than resolving half a dozen failed features in a row then
ProE goes "Boom" and you have to start again.

I did this recently, it worked really well. I have to say Wildfire's
handling of patterns is way better than it used to be.

 

I can stop and save my file at that point before I

Yeah, there is that. Have had it happen. To go off on a tangent
again, does regen backup have a roll to play in this? I know I've
seen the term but if I ever learned anything about it it's been lost.