CAD in creative design, problem solving

Existential Angst · May 17, 2010

Awl --

In a pointless response to the Village Idiot (Jon Banquer, unemployed
ex-thief of Qualcomm, in his absurd notion of him asking difficult Qs), I
brought up the notions of CAD being more for communication than the design
process itself.
Bonkers of course confuses "difficult" with "rancorous".

Some refinements of the design vs. communication notion.

In "art" type design, like, say, for a new car body, certainly CAD could be
useful, as a simple curvature of a line can alter the visual effect in auto
design..
But this is more of an "illustrating" context than say a parts/machining
context.

Ito of the actual function/design of mechanical parts, has anyone actually
solved a "design problem" using CAD?
And by design problem, I don't mean radius blends, geometry problems, etc,
for which CAD can really shine, but rather the solution to a "how do I do
this" engineering-type problem.

For me, the problem is always solved on paper, the essence of the design
clearly present on a napkin.
CAD, for me, is just for telling other people where the holes go, or for
keeping track of the history/evolution of a design....

Now admittedly, for things like carburetors, these holes can get perty
complicated, and mebbe CAD would be useful in doping a few things out in
something like that, but I would think mostly it's a tool for
communicating/building, not really thinking per se.

After all, some perty complicated carburetors were built before CAD, and I
don't know that CAD really improved them.

But mebbe they did.

Opinions? Experiences?

Cliff · May 18, 2010

In "art" type design, like, say, for a new car body, certainly CAD could be
useful, as a simple curvature of a line can alter the visual effect in auto
design..
But this is more of an "illustrating" context than say a parts/machining
context.
Click to expand...

Whils it is possible in some cases to have G2 surface relatonships
manually it's clearly easier to compute things <g>.
Plus you can then use CNC to machine the tools in 3D ...

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=213756&page=3

Think of this in terms of the derivatives along ANY plane
cutting the surfaces.

WAY over jb's pointed little beak ......
http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/17477.jpg

Cliff · May 18, 2010

In "art" type design, like, say, for a new car body, certainly CAD could be
useful, as a simple curvature of a line can alter the visual effect in auto
design..
But this is more of an "illustrating" context than say a parts/machining
context.
Click to expand...

The Space Shuttle's main engines were designed using
CADDS III ....

BTW, For old-timers ...
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswer...&gid=2643179&commentID=16421053&trk=view_disc

Cliff · May 18, 2010

Ito of the actual function/design of mechanical parts, has anyone actually
solved a "design problem" using CAD?
Click to expand...

Did you consider that a surface is the result of an "equation"
and that surface intersections can be found?
Not to mention all the number crunching ... and error
prevention/detection.

Cliff · May 18, 2010

Think really big napkins. Endless, boundless napkins, if you like.
Think about being able to draw a perfectly straight line, or a
perfectly round circle, with just a flick of your wrist. Think about
being able to undo a doodle that looks wrong; but without having to
scribble over it and mess up the whole deal, or without losing time and
train-of-thought when the napkin's full of ink and you need to start
over. Think about being able to pick up one of your doodles, right off
of the napkin, to turn if over and see if it still looks right. Think
about having all your napkins saved in one drawer, so you can easily
find an old one and compare it to something new you just thought of.
Imagine that, almost by magic, all your doodles and scribbles are done
at the same scale, or can be made to scale the same, so that any
collection of doodles can be put onto the same napkin for comparison,
brainstorming, or thought experiments about the project or problem.

Think about this, too: The first step to solving any problem is to
state the problem accurately and effectively. I find that having the
immediacy of napkin sketching combined with the precision of a CAD
drawing can make the problem itself more visible, which often makes it
more soluble. What's important is not to let the drawing become a
source of delay and distraction that messes up your thought process.

The reason most CAD users, including me when I was new at it, have
trouble "thinking" with a CAD system is that the mechanics of using the
system get in the way of dreaming and imagining and squeezing thoughts
out of your brain. When a thought appears in your mind, you want to
CAPTURE IT, not go looking for the right command icon, then trying to
make up numbers or mouse-clicked positions that you don't even have yet,
and then extending and trimming and coloring and layering and more, just
to sketch something rough and simple. By the time you've done all that,
the fleeting thought that you were grasping for is gone.

The solution is not to limit your CAD system to "after-the-fact"
refinement or presentation of a napkin-sketched idea; but to become as
fluent and comfortable with it as you are with your pencil. Then you'll
be BETTER able to play with ideas, and the mechanics of CAD system will
be less limiting than the inaccuracy and messiness and size constraints
and coffee stains on your napkin. When lines and circles and points of
intersection and tangency flow from your mouse the way doodles now flow
from your pencil, you'll think better, more easily, and more effectively.

To accomplish that level of comfort, you'll need two things. One, a
CAD system that's easy and comfortable to use, and to get thoroughly
used to. And two, lots of practice. Not necessarily structured
practice; but the same kind of constant endless doodling that you now do
on paper.

One of the reasons I still use AutoCAD Light '97 for much of my
design work (despite JB's endless rants about how idiotic I am) is that
I like it's UI, and I've spent so many zillions of hours with it that I
can can capture ideas using only my fingers, and without distracting my
brain. The CAD system is as natural for me as a pencil, but much more
effective. I don't need to think about drawing; but only about what to
draw. And when I get even the roughest sketch onto my screen, it's a
better sketch, more useful, and more easily played with, than anything I
could do on a napkin, notepad, or drafting board. It's also more
immediate and spontaneous than what I do with more capable CAD software,
which still demands my attention for its own needs. 3D shapes? Fitting
things together? Test assemblies that actually look like they might
work? Later. First I gotta get this thing working in my head. My old
and outdated AutoCAD does that for me like no "stronger" system ever has.

I once attended a dinner party for a club that my wife belonged to.
She knew all the other club members, but I knew nobody; and even my
wife didn't know any of the spouses. While sitting around a table of 10
or 12 people, enjoying coffee after dinner, talk turned to something or
other that some folks had questions about, and others offered to
explain. Instantly, three people at the table, including me, reached
into our coat pockets, pulled out our pens, and moved our coffee cups
off of the paper napkins they'd been served on. My wife laughed out
loud. "You can always tell the engineers in any crowd," she said.
"They can't talk or think without a pen or pencil."

And she was dead right - about the people at the table, and about
the general observation. Thinking - especially the kind involved in
design work of any kind - necessarily involves capturing what we "see"
in our minds. We need to grasp things that would otherwise slip away,
store them outside our heads so our minds are free to keep running
forward, and then look at our ideas as a way to understand them,
manipulate them, and begin hunting for possibilities our original
thoughts had only promised; but not made clear.

Getting ideas onto paper (or screen) really is a critical part of
the process. Napkins have their virtues, therefore. But so did
slide-rules, and for many of the very same reasons. When was the last
time you used a slipstick, even for rough calculations or estimates?

Pick a CAD system you can learn to use without effort, that you can
play and doodle with. Save the high-powered software for later. You'll
be amazed at how many napkins will be spared, and how much more robust
your thought processes can become.

KG
Click to expand...

http://bugman123.com/MinimalSurfaces/Costa-large.jpg
http://bugman123.com/MinimalSurfaces/Scherk-Collins-large.jpg

http://www.instructables.com/image/...urfaces-With-Metal-Shapes-and-Soap-Bubble.jpg
http://www.indiana.edu/~minimal/gallery/index/index.html

http://www.freigeist.cc/gallery.html

Jim Wilkins · May 18, 2010

...
...My wife laughed out
loud. "You can always tell the engineers in any crowd," she said.
"They can't talk or think without a pen or pencil."
...
KG
Click to expand...

The interesting case is someone who thinks multidimensionally and has
artistic ability but no training in drafting. Isometric pencil drawing
is also a learned skill, especially foreshortened curves. You see the
same distraction and frustration when they try to sketch lets say a
rocking chair they are making.

My favorite CAD exercise is drawing a bolt, with realistic vee threads
and chamfered edges on the head. My best time is 2 minutes.

jsw

cncmillgil · May 19, 2010

Think really big napkins. Endless, boundless napkins, if you like.
Think about being able to draw a perfectly straight line, or a
perfectly round circle, with just a flick of your wrist. Think about
being able to undo a doodle that looks wrong; but without having to
scribble over it and mess up the whole deal, or without losing time and
train-of-thought when the napkin's full of ink and you need to start
over. Think about being able to pick up one of your doodles, right off
of the napkin, to turn if over and see if it still looks right. Think
about having all your napkins saved in one drawer, so you can easily
find an old one and compare it to something new you just thought of.
Imagine that, almost by magic, all your doodles and scribbles are done
at the same scale, or can be made to scale the same, so that any
collection of doodles can be put onto the same napkin for comparison,
brainstorming, or thought experiments about the project or problem.

Think about this, too: The first step to solving any problem is to
state the problem accurately and effectively. I find that having the
immediacy of napkin sketching combined with the precision of a CAD
drawing can make the problem itself more visible, which often makes it
more soluble. What's important is not to let the drawing become a
source of delay and distraction that messes up your thought process.

The reason most CAD users, including me when I was new at it, have
trouble "thinking" with a CAD system is that the mechanics of using the
system get in the way of dreaming and imagining and squeezing thoughts
out of your brain. When a thought appears in your mind, you want to
CAPTURE IT, not go looking for the right command icon, then trying to
make up numbers or mouse-clicked positions that you don't even have yet,
and then extending and trimming and coloring and layering and more, just
to sketch something rough and simple. By the time you've done all that,
the fleeting thought that you were grasping for is gone.

The solution is not to limit your CAD system to "after-the-fact"
refinement or presentation of a napkin-sketched idea; but to become as
fluent and comfortable with it as you are with your pencil. Then you'll
be BETTER able to play with ideas, and the mechanics of CAD system will
be less limiting than the inaccuracy and messiness and size constraints
and coffee stains on your napkin. When lines and circles and points of
intersection and tangency flow from your mouse the way doodles now flow
from your pencil, you'll think better, more easily, and more effectively.

To accomplish that level of comfort, you'll need two things. One, a
CAD system that's easy and comfortable to use, and to get thoroughly
used to. And two, lots of practice. Not necessarily structured
practice; but the same kind of constant endless doodling that you now do
on paper.

One of the reasons I still use AutoCAD Light '97 for much of my
design work (despite JB's endless rants about how idiotic I am) is that
I like it's UI, and I've spent so many zillions of hours with it that I
can can capture ideas using only my fingers, and without distracting my
brain. The CAD system is as natural for me as a pencil, but much more
effective. I don't need to think about drawing; but only about what to
draw. And when I get even the roughest sketch onto my screen, it's a
better sketch, more useful, and more easily played with, than anything I
could do on a napkin, notepad, or drafting board. It's also more
immediate and spontaneous than what I do with more capable CAD software,
which still demands my attention for its own needs. 3D shapes? Fitting
things together? Test assemblies that actually look like they might
work? Later. First I gotta get this thing working in my head. Myold
and outdated AutoCAD does that for me like no "stronger" system ever has.

I once attended a dinner party for a club that my wife belonged to.
She knew all the other club members, but I knew nobody; and even my
wife didn't know any of the spouses. While sitting around a table of 10
or 12 people, enjoying coffee after dinner, talk turned to something or
other that some folks had questions about, and others offered to
explain. Instantly, three people at the table, including me, reached
into our coat pockets, pulled out our pens, and moved our coffee cups
off of the paper napkins they'd been served on. My wife laughed out
loud. "You can always tell the engineers in any crowd," she said.
"They can't talk or think without a pen or pencil."

And she was dead right - about the people at the table, and about
the general observation. Thinking - especially the kind involved in
design work of any kind - necessarily involves capturing what we "see"
in our minds. We need to grasp things that would otherwise slip away,
store them outside our heads so our minds are free to keep running
forward, and then look at our ideas as a way to understand them,
manipulate them, and begin hunting for possibilities our original
thoughts had only promised; but not made clear.

Getting ideas onto paper (or screen) really is a critical part of
the process. Napkins have their virtues, therefore. But so did
slide-rules, and for many of the very same reasons. When was the last
time you used a slipstick, even for rough calculations or estimates?

Pick a CAD system you can learn to use without effort, that you can
play and doodle with. Save the high-powered software for later. You'll
be amazed at how many napkins will be spared, and how much more robust
your thought processes can become.

KG
Click to expand...

Readers Digest version:
Industrial Engineers usually come up with the concept design for a
product. The look, shape "feel" of the part with direction from the
all mighty "Marketing people". That shape = CAD data is then passed
off to other specific engineers to design the internal "guts" & fine
details of the parts required to still maintain the original
aesthetics from that Industrial design.
Having that info in CAD data IMO is very important for down stream
work now days.

Most all solid modelers are "napkin sketchers"
Paint type programs are ok just to convey idea's but eventually it
should go to a CAD system. So why not skip that time used in Paint
Brush or Paint Shop Pro & go right to CAD modeling? That way there's
no misinterpretations as to the intent. You've got something more than
a pretty picture. SLA's can be made , prototype parts can be machined
off of that CAD data. No physical detail drawings are really required
until the product is released for production. Accurate renderings can
be made from any viewing angle to please those marketing people & do
power point presentations for the "big guys".

High end graphic arts software like Corel Draw & Adobe are slick &
able to export DXF files. But using that software efficiently is a
whole other profession.

Heck we're machinists here, I'll stick with solid modelers any day of
the week, unless of course you want to paste a foil beanie on picture
of someone & post it on the net <g>

just my 2 cents (now worth about 1cent in this economy)

Joe788 · May 19, 2010

Readers Digest version:
Click to expand...

At least one can wipe their ass with Readers Digest if they run out of
toilet paper. You can't even do that with your worthless post.

Most all solid modelers are "napkin sketchers"
Click to expand...

Total fucking bullshit. With history based solid modeling you better
be damn sure you have a pretty good idea of what you want before you
start modeling. This limitation doesn't exist with direct modeling and
you leave off this FACT motherfucker.

Paint type programs are ok just to convey idea's but eventually it
should go to a CAD system. So why not skip that time used in Paint
Brush or Paint Shop Pro & go right to CAD modeling?
Click to expand...

Why not demand both in one program? Things change in the CADCAM
business very, very quickly. Losers like Kirk Gordon can't keep pace.
Neither can you.

Heck we're machinists here.
Click to expand...

Define a machinist in today's economy? A traditional machinist is an
easy to fit stereotype that fits your current needs for this piece of
crap post of yours.

just my 2 cents (now worth about 1cent in this economy)
Click to expand...

With a piece of shit post like this I figure you owe me money... pay
up sucker!

cncmillgil · May 19, 2010

At least one can wipe their ass with Readers Digest if they run out of
toilet paper. You can't even do that with your worthless post.
Click to expand...

Good Idea, seems like your shit'n in your pants ALOT!

Total fucking bullshit. With history based solid modeling you better
be damn sure you have a pretty good idea of what you want before you
start modeling. This limitation doesn't exist with direct modeling and
you leave off this FACT motherfucker.
Click to expand...

Your right. Good Engineers/Designers know what they want & use the
best tools available RIGHT NOW & get the job done. Dumb shit's
complain & never get anything done. They do not want any history, it
just very clear record & shows how clueless they are.
So I can see your point on not remembering "your" history here Joe.

Why not demand both in one program?
Click to expand...

because graphic artist's are not engineers.
electricians are not plumbers,
they use different tools
key phrase: "they use right tools available & don't complain"

Things change in the CADCAM business very, very quickly.
Click to expand...

Good "rock solid" software gets improved, like Pro/E, UG, Solidworks &
thats right you know it Cimatron.

Losers like Kirk Gordon can't keep pace.
Click to expand...

Pace? WTF are you trying to say besides your "history" of slam?
I don't personally know any one here, but to me at least Kirk's trying
to help.
FYI that is the "design intent" of this group.

Neither can you.
Click to expand...

What? complain, bitch, moan, slam, be of absolutely no help
whatsoever?
Thank You, I take that as a compliment

Define a machinist in today's economy?
Click to expand...

Really? you need a definition? Holy shit! your worse than I thought!

A traditional machinist is an
easy to fit stereotype that fits your current needs for this piece of
crap post of yours.
Click to expand...

Needs? A good machinist needs very little IMO. He makes due with whats
available.
Improves things that are wrong & inefficient. Very little complaints -
just do it

With a piece of shit post like this I figure you owe me money... pay
up sucker!
Click to expand...

There ya go "figuring" again
Well maybe some day you'll "figure out" why you alienate yourself so
often.

This post is free, but donations are welcome.

Gentlemen........... start your slamming.

Joe788 · May 19, 2010

Good Idea, seems like your shit'n in your pants ALOT!
Click to expand...

I simply took the shit you spewed in your post about solid modeling
and made you eat it.

How does it taste?

Think twice before you spew this kind of sewage again.

Dumb shit's complain & never get anything done.
Click to expand...

Dumb shits make moronic statements like "Most all solid modelers are
"napkin sketchers" " and then when called on how fucking wrong they
are start whining like a bitch in heat.

because graphic artist's are not engineers.
electricians are not plumbers,
they use different tools
key phrase: "they use right tools available & don't complain"
Click to expand...

More bullshit from a bullshitter.

Really? you need a definition?
Click to expand...

No, but you certainly do.

Needs? A good machinist needs very little IMO. He makes due with whats
available.
Click to expand...

Show up at the next Indy 500 on your moped because that's all you have
available and post what kind of results you get.

Improves things that are wrong & inefficient. Very little complaints -
just do it
Click to expand...

Exactly what I did with your "wrong & inefficient" post.

You're welcome, motherfucker.

Joe788 · May 19, 2010

Good Idea, seems like your shit'n in your pants ALOT!

Your right. Good Engineers/Designers know what they want & use the
best tools available RIGHT NOW & get the job done. Dumb shit's
complain & never get anything done. They do not want any history, it
just very clear record & shows how clueless they are.
So I can see your point on not remembering "your" history here Joe.

because graphic artist's are not engineers.
electricians are not plumbers,
they use different tools
key phrase: "they use right tools available & don't complain"

Good "rock solid" software gets improved, like Pro/E, UG, Solidworks &
thats right you know it Cimatron.

Pace? WTF are you trying to say besides your "history" of slam?
I don't personally know any one here, but to me at least Kirk's trying
to help.
FYI that is the "design intent" of this group.

What? complain, bitch, moan, slam, be of absolutely no help
whatsoever?
Thank You, I take that as a compliment

Really? you need a definition? Holy shit! your worse than I thought!

>A traditional machinist is an

Needs? A good machinist needs very little IMO. He makes due with whats
available.
Improves things that are wrong & inefficient. Very little complaints -
just do it

There ya go "figuring" again
Well maybe some day you'll "figure out" why you alienate yourself so
often.

This post is free, but donations are welcome.

Gentlemen........... start your slamming.
Click to expand...

Gil, you realize you're talking to Jon Banquer, don't you?

The broad, ignorant, incorrect statements about software he hasn't
used should have gave it away.

Joe788 · May 19, 2010

Show up at the next Indy 500 on your moped because that's all you have
available and post what kind of results you get.
Click to expand...

This coming from the moron who Jihaded for a month about how all
machine shops with advanced equipment were going to be out of
business, and Jon Banquer's Backyard Fadal Graveyard was gonna set the
world on fire! Talk about showing up to the Indy 500 on a moped! LOL!

Cliff · May 19, 2010

Industrial Engineers usually come up with the concept design for a
product.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_engineering
[
.....
Industrial Engineering (often now supplemented as "Industrial & Systems
Engineering" or "Industrial & Operations Engineering") is a branch of
engineering dealing with optimizing complex processes or systems. It is
concerned with the development, improvement, implementation and evaluation of
integrated systems of people, money, knowledge, information, equipment, energy,
materials and/or processes .....
]

Cliff · May 19, 2010

The look, shape "feel" of the part with direction from the
all mighty "Marketing people".
Click to expand...

You should see what anautomotive engine cover might look
like as esigned/sketched bythe "stylist" in charge ... then compare
with what will actually fit under the hood over the engine & it's bits <G>.
Without excessivly denting the (we got it closed, eight?) hood if you rev the
engine ...

Cliff · May 19, 2010

Most all solid modelers are "napkin sketchers"
Paint type programs are ok just to convey idea's but eventually it
should go to a CAD system. So why not skip that time used in Paint
Brush or Paint Shop Pro & go right to CAD modeling?
Click to expand...

What runs on the "designer"s" Apple?

Cliff · May 19, 2010

At least one can wipe their ass with Readers Digest if they run out of
toilet paper. You can't even do that with your worthless post.

Total fucking bullshit. With history based solid modeling you better
be damn sure you have a pretty good idea of what you want before you
start modeling. This limitation doesn't exist with direct modeling and
you leave off this FACT motherfucker.
Click to expand...

What a drooling clueless idiot.
What did you think Pro-E's selling pont was??
What are "sketches" about?
WHY have history?

Why not demand both in one program? Things change in the CADCAM
business very, very quickly.
Click to expand...

And lacking any of the basics poor clueless remains confused ALWAYS.

Losers like Kirk Gordon can't keep pace.
Neither can you.

Define a machinist in today's economy? A traditional machinist is an
easy to fit stereotype that fits your current needs for this piece of
crap post of yours.
Click to expand...

Getting hot in that chicken suit?

With a piece of shit post like this I figure you owe me money... pay
up sucker!
Click to expand...

He drooled on the ASCII.

Existential Angst · May 19, 2010

Good Idea, seems like your shit'n in your pants ALOT!

Your right. Good Engineers/Designers know what they want & use the
best tools available RIGHT NOW & get the job done. Dumb shit's
complain & never get anything done. They do not want any history, it
just very clear record & shows how clueless they are.
So I can see your point on not remembering "your" history here Joe.

because graphic artist's are not engineers.
electricians are not plumbers,
they use different tools
key phrase: "they use right tools available & don't complain"

Good "rock solid" software gets improved, like Pro/E, UG, Solidworks &
thats right you know it Cimatron.

Pace? WTF are you trying to say besides your "history" of slam?
I don't personally know any one here, but to me at least Kirk's trying
to help.
FYI that is the "design intent" of this group.

What? complain, bitch, moan, slam, be of absolutely no help
whatsoever?
Thank You, I take that as a compliment

Really? you need a definition? Holy shit! your worse than I thought!

Needs? A good machinist needs very little IMO. He makes due with whats
available.
Improves things that are wrong & inefficient. Very little complaints -
just do it

There ya go "figuring" again
Well maybe some day you'll "figure out" why you alienate yourself so
often.

This post is free, but donations are welcome.

Gentlemen........... start your slamming.
Click to expand...

Gil, you realize you're talking to Jon Banquer, don't you?

The broad, ignorant, incorrect statements about software he hasn't
used should have gave it away.
==================================================

You know, it's funny, initially I was shocked and disconcerted at jb's theft
of your handle (a thief is always a thief, it appears), but really, you can
tell who is who by the very subject line, and often to whom Joe788 is
responding to.

There is actually very little ambiguity, except to total newcomer.

In the few cases where it isn't initially clear, it takes no more than 3-5
WORDS to tell who is who.

And even when jb is trying to fake civility/sanity, he still gives himself
away by being so utterly sycophantic and phoney.

He simply cannot hide who he is -- a delusional ignerint thieving prick.

cncmillgil · May 20, 2010

I know, I'm relpying to JB, I've been reluctant for many many years to
do so, Its just a waste of CO2 - cap & trade! <g>
As ya'll can see by my "history" profile thats pubic knowledge. I'm
not hiding anything like fake alias's, IP addy's,
So tell us ALL why are you John? Just plain why? Maybe you don't
realize what your doing? Bad childhood? Was never good enough for
your Father? beaten down? What?
I know you BP is prolly sky rocketing, but just chill man. Alot of
people here have tried to help you with your tantrum problems in your
past "history", only to get shit on & burnt.
That has to stop man, you aint that dumb? cant't you see the forest
through the trees? you will not have a friend in the world soon! if
not already.

I simply took the shit you spewed in your post about solid modeling
and made you eat it.
Click to expand...

Your not making anybody do anything, besides trying to stir tempers &
alienate yourself.
Does that make you feel good? powerfully? in control?
Just plain what???????
Is that what you want to be remembered for?

How does it taste?
Click to expand...

You have to answer that one, I don't eat anyone's crow.

Think twice before you spew this kind of sewage again.
Click to expand...

There's no thinking - its fact dude!
H E R E I T I S SO Y O U C A N G R A S P I T :
Pro/E = napkin sketcher
Solidworks = napkin sketcher
UG = napkin sketcher
Cimatron = napkin sketcher

Maybe you don't know what the meaning of the term = "napkin sketcher"
Dont feel bad, I didnt till 1996 using Pro/E ver14 on a unix work
station.

Dumb shits make moronic statements like "Most all solid modelers are
"napkin sketchers" " and then when called on how fucking wrong they
are start whining like a bitch in heat.
Click to expand...

Now who is whining here John?

Ok now calm down now, take a valium or xanax (preferably .5mg)<g>,
here's your answer
"napkin sketcher" simply means you are "free" to sketch anything you
want without constraints. Add/modify them later as needed.

More bullshit from a bullshitter.
Click to expand...

Take the blinders off man

No, but you certainly do.
Click to expand...

Come on now, 5th graders respond that way,
I know you are but what I'm I.
I know you are but what I'm I.
I know you are but what I'm I.

John ! are you smarter than 5th grader?

Show up at the next Indy 500 on your moped because that's all you have
available and post what kind of results you get.
Click to expand...

Ever been on & driven around the Indy track John?
I have ( the tour bus driver let me steer) <g>

John, come on now, A friend of mine lets me borrow his turbo Hayabusa
occasionally,
yes John, friends that trust me.
It will do 0-60 in 2.4sec's
wanna race for a little money? should I say , Want your doors blown
off?
That factory machine is THE fastest 2 wheels I have ever been on. Hell
its almost as good as sex.
surely better that bad sex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Hayabusa

Exactly what I did with your "wrong & inefficient" post.
Click to expand...

Think about what you writing now John - watch it, your contradicting
yourself.

You're welcome, motherfucker.
Click to expand...

Geeze I'm glad this is cross posting to all the CAD/CAM relevant
groups. I don't normally do that.

from BB:
one famous aphorism succinctly puts it: Those who know don't speak,
and
those who speak don't know, and those that speak the loudest &
longest
usually know the least.

& then the crowd was silent.................................

--

~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~~o~~

Some people make things happen....
Some watch things happen...
While others complain it can’t happen

~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~~o~~

\|||/
(o o)
______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
~ Gil ~
the self proclaimed IT13©® king

Joe788 · May 20, 2010

The bullshit goes on and on from worthless motherfuckers who can't
back up what they have to say with FACTS.

It is a FACT that with history based solid modeling you better be damn
sure you have a good idea of what you want before you start modeling
because it's next to impossible to radically change your mind without
having to start all over from scratch.

This limitation doesn't exist with direct modeling.

History based modeling is an approx 25 year old dated concept
popularized by PTC (Pro/E).

It's time to move on to better CAD tools than history based solid
modelers. Smarter CADCAM users are starting to do just that.

cncmillgil · May 20, 2010

What runs on the "designer"s" Apple?
Click to expand...

2E , Lisa or Mac?

Oh the IPad thats it!

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