Bevel Gear Instructions

I am rewriting the instruction set to build Straight Tooth Bevel Gears.
I am incorporating new information and methodology found in Wildfire 2
(WF2), the original was developed in 2001. The new instructions are
easier to follow and understand.
The original models work well in WF2. The icons displayed in the model
tree are the pre-Wildfire ones. To me this signifies that the legacy
Pro is running. There are no problems in building a completed gear or
pinion, regardless of the ratio.
The new method has a problem that must be associated with a flaw in the
program. The surface merge feature's reference direction flips when
the Pitch Cone Angle (PCA) is greater than 45°. This prevents the
solid tooth to be formed. Also, when this problem is fixed and the
tooth is rotated about the Z-axis, the directions flip yet again. This
prevents a full pattern from developing.
This prevents ANY tooth greater than a Miter to be made.
I can only develop the method using the student edition of WF2. Before
I invest in an upgrade to WF3, I want some assurance that the current
available method can be successfully used at high PCAs, above 45°.
Has anyone tried the old method with any success in WF3? For those of
you who want to try, the PDF is located at briefcase.yahoo.com.
Login as: fromhenrik
Password is: engineer
Any light on this matter would GREATLY be appreciated.
Thank you,
Mark N. McAllister

 

.....
"Before I invest in an upgrade to WF3, I want some assurance that the
current
available method can be successfully used at high PCAs, above 45°."

There's a reason AGMA has gear making software ~ specialized software,
dedicated to only gear design ~ that it supports and recommends and that
gear makers/gear designers generally use over the generalist,
"one-size-fits-all" approach of a Pro/ENGINEER. Pro/e is kinda good at a
lotta things but REALLY good at nothin'.

Seems like you're wanting to buy in early, get all the benefits of the new
software and all the improvements. Be good to know, before you go, what all
those "improvements" are and how they relate to gear design.

The bug you mention (flipping stuff, inside/outside, top/bottom, left/right)
is a perennial favorite with Pro/e: climb the mountain, from 2001 to WF, get
over a bunch of hurdles, "correct" a bunch of bugs, then, come back to WF2,
F000_, and find the same stuff you thought got fixed in the previous rev.
THEY BEEN DOIN' THAT SCAM FOR A L-O-N-G TIME!!! No building on the
"shoulders of giants" where PTC is concerned; rev ending points are hardly
ever new rev starting points, where Pro/e is concerned. The big guys
(Motorola, Caterpillar, OMC, Deere) simply play the waiting game and buy a
rev when it's been improved to its limit, which is when it is just about to
expire and the new, "IMPROVED" rev is about to step in to take its place.
The SE is the perfect bench mark, as it's released with the first commercial
version of Pro/e and reflects its native state. Bugs you find in it are in
the native, initial released software; wait 6-9 months and you'll be much
better off. If you insist on jumping in early, be prepared to participate in
the bug report, improvement report, new build testing every week, data
collection/reporting and the whole, after market, beta-gamma testing (you'll
never hear, officially, about this, but you'd be an elite participant).
Anyway, whatever, the problem may be in your original surface models and
could be fixed, quite simply, by redefining them which might get all those
internal arrows flipping in the right direction. I've noticed, since WF,
that Pro/e can't tell the simplest thing about direction and this is the
single biggest weakness of the Dashboard ~ the interface is nicely revamped
but the code at the base is the same dimwitted shit. That's what your
problem sounds like. And you need to get into the bug
reporting/tracking/correction process. We'll all be better off if a bunch
more people do.

David Janes

 

David,

obviously there´s some elementary math (+/-) in the ProE core
not well implemented - impossible to fix (fixes generate no cash).

Since this was an issue back in V12 I guess it will never be fixed,
maybe we´re luckier with programmers frequently inventing new GUIs.
Leaves us with the behaviour of the core modeller predictable.

Walther

 

Yes, Walter, there's something to be said for not "fixing" known bad
behavior. It's the origin of Pro/e as the capital of the workaround
universe. I just don't know a workaround for this one. But to actually fix
this 'by mail' which is how we work here, we'd have to get into the actual
modeling methods. Some are more susceptible to the "flipping" problem than
others, especially if a pattern is involved. Any more details that can be
provided on the construction will be of use.

David Janes

 

This is not, repeat not, meant to run as a gear design method.
It only generates a toothed model for assmbly fit and fuction.

The original models were developed in ver. 2001. These did not have
this problem. Those original models work well in in WF2. Pitch Cone
Angles for 2:1 and up ratio gear sets can be created without any
problems. The new methods employed only simplfiy and remove some of
the steps due to some new relations.

I would greatly appreciate some input without the cynical baggage
attached.

I invite anyone to try and build a test model in WF3 and report any
findings regarding this issue.

The failure occurs when the template's Pitch Cone Angle is pushed into
the 2:1 ratio area, approximately 68 degrees.

As far as jumping on the bug band wagon, my current employer does not
use Pro/ENGINEER. I do like the program very much and keep the
personnal copy for my own use (no maint).

Thank you,
Mark N. McAllister

 

"This is not, repeat not, meant to run as a gear design method.
It only generates a toothed model for assmbly fit and fuction."

Okay, some nice red-herring reply to some non-existent suggestion of some
alleged production use of your models. Got NO idea WTF you're talking about
or reacting to since you seem strictly averse to quoting (anything or
anyone), so we have no reference, no attribution for anything. Too bad, cuz
we might at least have gotten your "rewrite of instructions to build
Straight Tooth Bevel Gears" out of this whole process. And, as we've NEVER
had that here, it would have been quite a coup, quite a contribution on your
part, Mark. But, so far, we've gotten only hints, suggestions, inferences,
rumors, vague references to such a thing.

"The original models were developed in ver. 2001. These did not have
this problem. Those original models work well in in WF2. Pitch Cone
Angles for 2:1 and up ratio gear sets can be created without any
problems. The new methods employed only simplfiy and remove some of
the steps due to some new relations."

So you allege; we haven't seen them or their progeny. But, in this forum,
with a bunch of highly skilled Pro/e Super Users, we'd have to actually see
and interrogate and investigate the patient to make a diagnosis


I would greatly appreciate some input without the cynical baggage
attached.

I invite anyone to try and build a test model in WF3 and report any
findings regarding this issue.

Are we now privy to some private discussion, one to which we've not been
previously invited? This, once again, unattributed "quote" comes from no
discussion that's gone on in this forum. How does it get in here, with no
introduction. I say it ought to be banned; I say it was introduced without
foundation in fact; I say it's illusion, chimmera, shadows on the wall;
spooky stories to scare little children. And, since we're adults here,
please disregard. Mr. Mark N. McAllister was merely having another of his
episodes. Please understand and be patient.

"The failure occurs when the template's Pitch Cone Angle is pushed into
the 2:1 ratio area, approximately 68 degrees."

Could we retrench, regroup, reconnoitre and reassess: what is the failure we
really have to deal with? So far, it looks only like this:
"The surface merge feature's reference direction flips when the Pitch Cone
Angle (PCA) is greater than 45°." Cool, but isn't there an arrow that lets
you flip it back and correct the obviously incorrect regen from Pro/e!?!

"As far as jumping on the bug band wagon, my current employer does not use
Pro/ENGINEER." So, how would you ever go to WF3!?! (This is in the half of
what you've said, so far, that makes absolutely no sense!!)

"I do like the program very much and keep the personnal copy for my own use
(no maint)." So what do you and your company use!?! And what's Pro/e got to
do with it? Mysteries abound here.

David Janes

 

Mr. Janes,
Nice rant.

Apparently you did not realize I was referring to your comment in your
initial reply. I will quote it here now.
"There's a reason AGMA has gear making software ~ specialized software,
dedicated to only gear design ~ that it supports and recommends and
that gear makers/gear designers generally use over the generalist,
"one-size-fits-all" approach of a Pro/ENGINEER. Pro/e is kinda good at
a lotta things but REALLY good at nothin'.

Seems like you're wanting to buy in early, get all the benefits of the
new software and all the improvements. Be good to know, before you go,
what all those "improvements" are and how they relate to gear design."

As for the "highly skilled Pro/e Super Users", their analytical minds
would have read the original post in its entirety and noticed at the
bottom the following:
"Has anyone tried the old method with any success in WF3? For those of
you who want to try, the PDF is located at briefcase.yahoo.com.
Login as: fromhenrik
Password is: engineer
Any light on this matter would GREATLY be appreciated."

This was set up by someone who assisted me once. I have discovered
that others use the site now for Pro/ENGINEER related transfers.

If people who frequent ConnectPress's Pro/E community, specifically the
Q&A section, also come here, they may have seen the original calls for
help on this type of gear creation a few months ago. I uploaded and
made the briefcase public knowledge at that time. It was only
afterwards, I discovered that my method fails in Wildfire 2. Upon
checking the original, 2001, models I discovered they do not suffer the
same fate, hence the call to find if the same problem exists in WF3.

But, from the reception I have received, I severely doubt any serious
inquiries are posted and they go to another forum such as the one
mentioned previously, which is screened.

The preceding statement indicates you have read and fathomed some of
the subject matter in the reply. Please explain why you could not
understand in your highly skilled Pro/e Super User mind the part
immediately following your quote of mine? "Also, when this problem is
fixed and the tooth is rotated about the Z-axis, the directions flip
yet again. This prevents a full pattern from developing." After a
certain amount of rotation, the normals change direction and the solid,
please download and examine the document to fully understand, fails.

We use a mid-range solid modeler from a company that originally started
with a 2-D product. I will leave you to speculate as to what.

The power of Pro/E is far greater than what I professionally use, so I
keep the personal edition to test out ideas in my spare time.

Now a personal message for Mr. Janes, login to google and view my
profile to get my email address. Email me and I will send you the 2001
(SE) files and the new instruction set. In this way, Dr. Janes, you
can interrogate the patient.

Mark N. McAllister